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Euro 2020 : Semi finals and final


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37 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

Again completely disagree, what England manager in the history of England football teams ever have such a pool of talent to pick from, that doesn’t even include the players that didn’t make the squad.

Those managers you mentioned are a class above Southgate with proven track records, so yes I absolutely believe they would’ve also got us to the finals, easily. 

As has been posted earlier in the thread, this squad has nothing on Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Rooney and Owen all playing together. Not sure many of the current squad would be starters in that era of England.

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8 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Quite a passionate post, Jack not willing to take the blame for Gareth’s decision making.

Another myth that everybody in the camp was happy will probably unravel now (like after most other tournaments).

Here’s the tweet as it didn’t embed properly in Stefans post

 

Edited by Genie
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Not that it matters much (to me) or that I think the English players give a rats ass but I wonder if they will get fines for very demonstratively taking off their silver medals as soon as they were presented with them and while still on camera. Wasn't a good look and I'm sure UEFA are pretty miffed about it. 

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3 minutes ago, sne said:

Not that it matters much (to me) or that I think the English players give a rats ass but I wonder if they will get fines for very demonstratively taking off their silver medals as soon as they were presented with them and while still on camera. Wasn't a good look and I'm sure UEFA are pretty miffed about it. 

It’s a thing now, all losing finalists take the medal off immediately. Same at the CL and EL finals.

I agree though that UEFA might want to advise players keep them on.

Edited by Genie
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Just now, sne said:

Not that it matters much (to me) or that I think the English players give a rats ass but I wonder if they will get fines for very demonstratively taking off their silver medals as soon as they were presented with them and while still on camera. Wasn't a good look and I'm sure UEFA are pretty miffed about it. 

Happens during nearly every medal presentation ceremony doesn't it? Be it Champions league, Europa league, FA Cup whatever.

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16 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

It's not a matter of 'does he have the ability to play in it' but 'does he have experience of playing football at that level'. Put it this way - when Jack first went to an England camp, he did an interview afterwards where he was talking about how much higher the standard of other players in training was, and then he had to check himself because he clearly realised it was coming off as a bit insulting to his Villa team mates. But the point is you benefit from the experience of training with better players - and in the same way, you benefit from the experience of playing in bigger matches against tougher opponents. Part of the reason that the same few teams finish in the European places year after year is that the experience of long runs of continent-level football makes them better players.

If Rice moves to Chelsea and plays in the CL, he'll be a better player after doing so than he is now. Part of that will be better training, better teammates, and better facilities, but part of it will also be the experience of playing football at a higher level. I don't see why that would be a controversial thing to say.

well lets agree to disagree. jack plays 8 league games a season against champions league opponents. they know the standard. the fact that they have not played in the competition itself IMO is irrelevant. 

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3 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

Happens during nearly every medal presentation ceremony doesn't it? Be it Champions league, Europa league, FA Cup whatever.

Maybe, looks terrible thou. I know when it's happened at the Olympics there have been talk about stripping the athletes of their medals and handing them to the ones placed after them. Obviously won't happen here and should not but it's disrespectful.

Edit. It's also IMO slightly different compared to a club competition. 

Edited by sne
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Just now, tomav84 said:

well lets agree to disagree. jack plays 8 league games a season against champions league opponents. they know the standard. the fact that they have not played in the competition itself IMO is irrelevant. 

I mean, even if you don't buy that playing at a higher standard for more games helps players improve, then it's obviously literally an advantage to have experience of playing against individual players that you wouldn't have otherwise.

If we were playing Portugal, would I rather have a defender who had experience of playing against Ronaldo before, or an equally talented player who had never played against him? Seems pretty obvious which would be better.

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1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said:

I mean, even if you don't buy that playing at a higher standard for more games helps players improve, then it's obviously literally an advantage to have experience of playing against individual players that you wouldn't have otherwise.

If we were playing Portugal, would I rather have a defender who had experience of playing against Ronaldo before, or an equally talented player who had never played against him? Seems pretty obvious which would be better.

i mean specific players, maybe, but so much homework gets done nowadays around watching videos etc

it could be argued that an experienced CL player might have been taken to the absolute cleaners by ronaldo the last time they met. so actually, there would be a case for someone to play who has yet to face him. your argument is very general around CL experience being a plus, and i disagree with it.

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29 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

It's not a matter of 'does he have the ability to play in it' but 'does he have experience of playing football at that level'. Put it this way - when Jack first went to an England camp, he did an interview afterwards where he was talking about how much higher the standard of other players in training was, and then he had to check himself because he clearly realised it was coming off as a bit insulting to his Villa team mates. But the point is you benefit from the experience of training with better players - and in the same way, you benefit from the experience of playing in bigger matches against tougher opponents. Part of the reason that the same few teams finish in the European places year after year is that the experience of long runs of continent-level football makes them better players.

If Rice moves to Chelsea and plays in the CL, he'll be a better player after doing so than he is now. Part of that will be better training, better teammates, and better facilities, but part of it will also be the experience of playing football at a higher level. I don't see why that would be a controversial thing to say.

Ah, you mean like Toloi, Spinazzola, Florenzi, Locatelli, Castrovilli, Cristante, Pessina, Berardi, Belotti and Raspadori?

This whole 'you need CL experience' is BS. It doesn't make a player or a squad. Close to half of the Italian squad has zero CL experience and yet they've more than shown that it's possible. 

Edited by magnkarl
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2 minutes ago, sne said:

Maybe, looks terrible thou. I know when it's happened at the Olympics there have been talk about stripping the athletes of their medals and handing them to the ones placed after them. Obviously won't happen here and should not but it's disrespectful.

Edit. It's also IMO slightly different compared to a club competition. 

Yeah it does look bad alright. I actually find it pretty pointless giving them loser's medals if I'm honest. None of them ever seem to want it. They are paraded one by one and made shake hands with a bunch dignitaries, of whom they have no clue who they are, when they just want out of there as quickly as possible. 

Maybe it's nice to have to look back on later in life. I obviously have no clue on that score.

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I think Southgate’s penalty selection is a microcosm of him as manager.

He’s hardworking, meticulous and prepared and as a result he’s got his plan/line up all figured out should the situation arise.

Problem is some players thrive under pressure and some shrink and you can’t figure that out just by taking penalties at the training ground. There has to be an element of playing the occasion/situation but Southgate is more comfortable sticking to the plan.

I feel sorry for Saka, he was thrown to the wolves last night. 

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17 minutes ago, sne said:

Not that it matters much (to me) or that I think the English players give a rats ass but I wonder if they will get fines for very demonstratively taking off their silver medals as soon as they were presented with them and while still on camera. Wasn't a good look and I'm sure UEFA are pretty miffed about it. 

I seen Man Utd players do the same only a month or so ago when they lost to VillaReal in the Europa League.

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7 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Ah, you mean like Toloi, Spinazzola, Florenzi, Locatelli, Castrovilli, Cristante, Pessina, Berardi, Belotti and Raspadori?

This whole 'you need CL experience' is BS. It doesn't make a player or a squad. Close to half of the Italian squad has zero CL experience and yet they've more than shown that it's possible. 

Well firstly, Spinazzola aside, those are mostly squad players who had few minutes on the pitch. But rather than disproving that CL experience is valuable, IMO you are demonstrating just what a fantastic job Mancini has done, in that he really has managed to create a whole squad that play the same way. It's not easy, and not just anyone can do it.

EDIT: For clarity, I'm not saying you *need* it - Rice and Phillips got us to the final, with none of it; I'm saying that *it is beneficial*.

Edited by HanoiVillan
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12 minutes ago, sne said:

Maybe, looks terrible thou. I know when it's happened at the Olympics there have been talk about stripping the athletes of their medals and handing them to the ones placed after them. Obviously won't happen here and should not but it's disrespectful.

Edit. It's also IMO slightly different compared to a club competition. 

Leave them on and it’s interpreted as having a “losers mentality” or satisfied with being second best.

Everyone is expected to be a ruthless, borderline psychotic competitor these days 🙄

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6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Well firstly, Spinazzola aside, those are mostly squad players who had few minutes on the pitch. But rather than disproving that CL experience is valuable, IMO you are demonstrating just what a fantastic job Mancini has done, in that he really has managed to create a whole squad that play the same way. It's not easy, and not just anyone can do it.

EDIT: For clarity, I'm not saying you *need* it - Rice and Phillips got us to the final, with none of it; I'm saying that *it is beneficial*.

I think we agree. The difference is that Italy's 'squad' players actually played. Our squad players got zero to no time. We barely used our subs. If I was Everton's manager I'd be pretty pissed that you've taken my main man and let him sit on the bench for 1 month, rather than letting him prepare for next season. Our rotation has been silly.

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9 minutes ago, Hornso said:

Leave them on and it’s interpreted as having a “losers mentality” or satisfied with being second best.

Everyone is expected to be a ruthless, borderline psychotic competitor these days 🙄

I don't mind if they take them off, but at least wait more than 2 seconds before you do it and to when you are not in the same camera frame as you were when you were presented with it. Petulant classless behavior.

Edited by sne
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Just now, sne said:

I don't mind if they take then off, but at least wait more than 2 seconds before you do it and to when you are not in the same camera frame as you were when you were presented with it. Petulant classless behavior.

“I’m too good for a silver medal”

Well, obviously not.

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1 minute ago, magnkarl said:

I think we agree. The difference is that Italy's 'squad' players actually played. Our squad players got zero to no time. We barely used our subs. If I was Everton's manager I'd be pretty pissed that you've taken my main man and let him sit on the bench for 1 month, rather than letting him prepare for next season. Our rotation has been silly.

I do agree we could have rotated somewhat more, especially in the group stage, though I also take seriously the point that too many subs can seriously disrupt a side (I think Denmark's flurry of substitutions did nothing except put them completely on the back foot against us for instance). It's a tricky balancing act, but I'm happy to agree Mancini was better at it than Southgate (Mancini proved to me that he's a really good manager in this tournament!)

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