Euro 2020 : Semi finals and final

[bobzy]

3 minutes ago, Cizzler said:

You’re right, apologies! Just watched it back. Mount fouls Dolberg and then from that free kick Shaw is penalised for grappling with Christensen.

Both soft - but the ref was pretty consistent giving them all game to Kane/Sterling too.

Do you think VAR overturns the pen in the PL?

I don’t think VAR overturns the penalty because there’s some contact at some point - and I think that’s why it wasn’t overturned. It’s a dive though. 

[Genie]

I’m really intrigued about Southgate and Grealish though. 
Southgate obviously thinks Jack has an attacking threat hence putting him on as plan B when needing a goal. In Southgates mind though there is some major drawback to having him on the pitch which I can’t work out.

He won’t start him, and to sub him once in the lead reinforces it. 
Does he think Jack is lazy or doesn’t defend? Or is he uncomfortable with JG winning free kicks? I don’t agree with either but just trying to work out why he uses him as he does.

[jayEm]

23 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I really struggle with the idea that Sterling was brilliant. He's brainless. He was one of the better forward players on the pitch which is a sad indictment of the rest of them, but he's so wasteful, and just wants to do it all himself no matter how many options he has. I lost count of the number of times he had players available for progressive passes and instead tried and failed to take on his man.

Yeah, it worked for the penalty, but a less selfish player (not that I have a specific individual in mind ), in those positions would have been much more effective.

You can look at the key stats of the tournament and much like them making Pickford look brilliant, they'd make Sterling look like he's been phenomenal throughout the tournament. It certainly isn't what I see on the pitch though.

Agreed. Yes he's scored and been involved in a lot of good stuff, but he's also one of the few creative outlets in a team with 7/10 defense-oriented outfield players. Who else is going to be doing that stuff? Before the Ukraine game they showed his 'highlights' against Germany and half the clips featured him holding onto the ball too long and giving it straight to the German players. For every good move there's a frustratng waste of an opportunity as well.

He's had a good tournament, but hearing pundits say it was one of the all-time greatest performances in an England shirt if making me wonder if I actually know anything about football.

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I don’t think VAR overturns the penalty because there’s some contact at some point - and I think that’s why it wasn’t overturned. It’s a dive though. 

They should have asked him to have another look at it on the monitor as a minimum.

[Cizzler]

4 minutes ago, JoshVilla said:

The thought of Phillips starting against Italy scares me. He had a good first game against Croatia but every game since he's either been anonymous or, as per last night, an obvious weakness.

I get that he's a decent player with a lot of potential but there's no way he should be starting for England. He'll end up being sent off v Italy

He’s been booked once all tournament. Not sure he’s a red card risk - but do agree he’s going to struggle against that Italian midfield.

Jorginho/Veratti are so comfortable on the ball and can both beat the press with quick passing easily. Will be a big test for Mount/Phillips and Rice and where the game is won/lost.

The Italy back four can be exposed in my opinion. Their full backs are poor (with Emerson starting now) and their centre halves are slow.

I’m not too concerned by Immobile/Chiesa either - don’t think either are particularly special. Insigne is a good player but I wonder if Southgate will go 3-4-3 to double-up on him with Walker/Trippier.

[The_Steve]

4 minutes ago, Genie said:

They should have asked him to have another look at it on the monitor as a minimum.

I agree - there’s no transparency. The video should be mandatory 

[Genie]

3 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

I agree - there’s no transparency. The video should be mandatory 

Every single person in the world is watching the replay and agreeing that there’s no way Sterling was brought down by that slightest of touches. It’s impossible.

VAR (the only peoples who’s opinion counts) watch it and allow the penalty to go ahead. It’s a match winning semi-final penalty, it HAS to be correct. And they leave it.

[villa4europe]

7 minutes ago, Genie said:

They should have asked him to have another look at it on the monitor as a minimum.

But why? 

He gave it because he saw contact between the hips of the 2 players and judged that contact to be a foul

If there was no contact then the mistake is obvious and VAR intervenes 

If its a case of trying to use several different angles and speeds to try and calculate the extent of the contact and if the player exaggerated it then that IMO isnt what VAR was brought in to do, that's where PGMOL are going wrong, nobody wants that shit, ref spends 3 minutes looking at a screen and ends up none the wiser, go with the original decision

FWIW if he'd have given no penalty then I would expect VAR to be used in the exact same way, he saw the contact in real time, it's his judgement as to what that contact meant, his alone, that's what he's there for

[Mister_a]

9 minutes ago, Genie said:

I’m really intrigued about Southgate and Grealish though. 
Southgate obviously thinks Jack has an attacking threat hence putting him on as plan B when needing a goal. In Southgates mind though there is some major drawback to having him on the pitch which I can’t work out.

He won’t start him, and to sub him once in the lead reinforces it. 
Does he think Jack is lazy or doesn’t defend? Or is he uncomfortable with JG winning free kicks? I don’t agree with either but just trying to work out why he uses him as he does.

Putting my non-villa glasses on for a sec, I noticed that when Jack came on, despite the tempo increasing, he did lose the ball twice in quick succession, and that's something Southgate probably doesn't like very much. 

Putting my villa glasses back on. That's what happens with creative players Gareth you plum; they try things and sometimes they don't work.

Maybe have a look at Sterling, who despite scoring goals, has been the most selfish, blind alley, won't pass to anyone if he can help it if there's a remote sniff of glory kind of player. Can't stand him in the team, even without Grealish, I'm convinced we would look much more convincing without Sterling in the team.

Oh and tell Kane to stay in the penalty box, the clearing in the woods.

[Genie]

1 minute ago, villa4europe said:

He gave it because he saw contact between the hips of the 2 players and judged that contact to be a foul

There’s no way on gods green earth that hip contact is a foul.

Its a contact Sport remember, people seem to think that in the penalty area contact = foul.

[darrenm]

1 minute ago, Mister_a said:

he did lose the ball twice in quick succession, and that's something Southgate probably doesn't like very much. 

I thought that. But then Phillips, Saka and Sterling did exactly the same while Jack relieved pressure winning a couple of free kicks pulling the team up the pitch, then held on to the ball longer going towards their goal creating spaces for attacks.

[villa4europe]

Just now, Genie said:

There’s no way on gods green earth that hip contact is a foul.

Its a contact Sport remember, people seem to think that in the penalty area contact = foul.

I agree that it's not

But I don't see what VAR shows him that he doesn't already know 

He saw the contact and judged it a foul in real time 

Seeing it slower then shows him that there is still contact but he now has to try and judge if that contact was enough to push him over? 

I don't agree that it should be used in that way 

That's why I never wanted VAR in the first place, there is no "correct" answer, its still guesswork as to what that contact did to his balance and to whether or not he dived 

Go with real time, it's not an obvious mistake 

[Genie]

6 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I agree that it's not

But I don't see what VAR shows him that he doesn't already know 

He saw the contact and judged it a foul in real time 

Seeing it slower then shows him that there is still contact but he now has to try and judge if that contact was enough to push him over? 

I don't agree that it should be used in that way 

That's why I never wanted VAR in the first place, there is no "correct" answer, its still guesswork as to what that contact did to his balance and to whether or not he dived 

Go with real time, it's not an obvious mistake 

I think 99.9% of people would agree the “contact” didn’t bring him down. It wasn’t even ambiguous where he’s deliberately dangled his legs. He ran alongside the defender then collapsed.

VAR could say to the ref, it looks like some very minimal contact and not enough to cause him to hit the deck. You might want to take another look.

99.9% of people I think would have agreed it would be the right decision if it was overturned. 
For that reason I think it was a clear and obvious error. Nobody thought it was a penalty having seen the replay.

If replays aren’t going to be used then there’s going to be thousands of unpunished cheats. Many blatant fouls or handballs look ok in real time.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Genie

[PieFacE]

30 minutes ago, Genie said:

I’m really intrigued about Southgate and Grealish though. 
Southgate obviously thinks Jack has an attacking threat hence putting him on as plan B when needing a goal. In Southgates mind though there is some major drawback to having him on the pitch which I can’t work out.

He won’t start him, and to sub him once in the lead reinforces it. 
Does he think Jack is lazy or doesn’t defend? Or is he uncomfortable with JG winning free kicks? I don’t agree with either but just trying to work out why he uses him as he does.

Could it not simply be a case of Sterling is in brilliant form and is quite effective from playing on the left where Jack's best position is? 

[Genie]

Just now, PieFacE said:

Could it not simply be a case of Sterling is in brilliant form and is quite effective from playing on the left where Jack's best position is? 

I don’t think so. Sterling was exhausted, Jack was fresh and more than capable of seeing the game out.

Theres something that GS doesn’t like about Jacks game that he thinks is a risk/liability.

[The_Steve]

Ultimately, why would you risk your most effective winger at 2-1 up and make them play 120 minutes with the final on Sunday 

[villa4europe]

Just now, The_Steve said:

Ultimately, why would you risk your most effective winger at 2-1 up and make them play 120 minutes with the final on Sunday 

Counter attack 

 

10 minutes ago, Genie said:

I think 99.9% of people would agree the “contact” didn’t bring him down. It wasn’t even ambiguous where he’s deliberately dangled his legs. He ran alongside the defender then collapsed.

VAR could say to the ref, it looks like some very minimal contact and not enough to cause him to hit the deck. You might want to take another look.

99.9% of people I think would have agreed it would be the right decision if it was overturned. 
For that reason I think it was a clear and obvious error. Nobody thought it was a penalty having seen the replay.

If replays aren’t going to be used then there’s going to be thousands of unpunished cheats. Many blatant fouls or handballs look ok in real time.

He bumped off his hip

My personal opinion is that it wasn't or at the least shouldn't be enough to push him over

Doesn't make it fact 

I don't think VAR should be used in a manner where it is still open for interpretation and debate, stick with the original decision

You can say that you don't agree with it, you can say its soft, you can say sterling bought it, you can say sterling is a cheating diving word removed, you can't factually say that it was wrong because the contact is there and therefore you shouldn't be using VAR to overturn it 

[The_Steve]

I hope the police arrest the idiot who aimed the laser pen at Kasper during the penalty 

[ferguson1]

9 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

I hope the police arrest the idiot who aimed the laser pen at Kasper during the penalty 

Agreed, total stupidity, 

[Genie]

24 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

You can say that you don't agree with it, you can say its soft, you can say sterling bought it, you can say sterling is a cheating diving word removed, you can't factually say that it was wrong because the contact is there and therefore you shouldn't be using VAR to overturn it 

To me this looks a lot like “any contact in the penalty area is a foul”, which I think is more dangerous than overturning ones that look extremely soft.