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Tammy Abraham


nick76

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Just now, Dave-R said:

He become realistic when we have Watkins who can't score and Wesley who screws about like that and can't score and we'll Davis who's what scored one goals since god knows when.

How can you or anyone blood write this crap pretending there isn't a problem with having just Watkins as our only decent forward?? The same people were most likely the same ones shouting to get Grealish backup, everyone had common sense to see that without bringing Buendia in we would've a one man team relying on Jack. As it stand with just Watkins we will be that reliant on just his goals the moment he goes down for any reason that's it season is done because we will struggle. Getting in another serious Forward isn't hard to figure out as we can't rely on just Watkins for a while seasonanymore than we could Jack last.

It's a disaster waiting to happen it is but you won't listen to reason till it all goes wrong and then having the ones who foreseen it tell you so.

How are you convincing Abraham to join when you can't promise him regular gametime?

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1 minute ago, nick76 said:

Is that such a bad thing? Maybe Greenwood would’ve benefited more from it, does many young talented players good than staying at their club in the early years.

Less than Brad Young I think Greenwood is a bit like Barry in that he can play wide and cut inside to then play like the striker, the old Henry role, and I think as a youngster coming through that kind of role and development where he's not out and out in either role needs a lot of watching from your coaches and management and can be lost out on loan if you don't find the right move

For that reason I can see Barry staying at villa rather than go out, be the player we want him to be

Young on the other hand is either around the 1st team this year or he's got to go out on loan, another year in the U23s won't be much use to him 

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I'm sure Dean, Lange and Purslow must be having similar discussions as we are, trying to work out the value he would add vs the cost.  Today must have been a bit of a wake up call if they intended to have Wes as back up and competition for Ollie.  For me ideally we would be trying to sign the next Watkins or Toney (maybe Dike?) before Brentford get them but if they decide we have the money and a way to keep Ollie and Tammy happy then I'm all for signing him.

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1 minute ago, villa4europe said:

Less than Brad Young I think Greenwood is a bit like Barry in that he can play wide and cut inside to then play like the striker, the old Henry role, and I think as a youngster coming through that kind of role and development where he's not out and out in either role needs a lot of watching from your coaches and management and can be lost out on loan if you don't find the right move

For that reason I can see Barry staying at villa rather than go out, be the player we want him to be

Young on the other hand is either around the 1st team this year or he's got to go out on loan, another year in the U23s won't be much use to him 

Barry is a fair comparison.

Think he is a similar level of talent as well.

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4 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

He become realistic when we have Watkins who can't score and Wesley who screws about like that and can't score and we'll Davis who's what scored one goals since god knows when.

How can you or anyone bloody write this crap pretending there isn't a problem with having just Watkins as our only decent forward?? The same people were most likely the same ones shouting to get Grealish backup, everyone had common sense to see that without bringing Buendia in we would've a one man team relying on Jack. As it stand with just Watkins we will be that reliant on just his goals the moment he goes down for any reason that's it season is done because we will struggle. Getting in another serious Forward isn't hard to figure out as we can't rely on just Watkins for a while seasonanymore than we could Jack last.

It's a disaster waiting to happen it is but you won't listen to reason till it all goes wrong and then having the ones who foreseen it tell you so.

Said before I think my problem with it is we have the forward for the future sat in our youth team, we will ride it out until Barry is ready, we won't spend mega bucks on someone on a 5 year deal who means that Barry doesn't break through

Ollie + Tammy for me personally means that Barry is going to struggle at villa 

He's not ready yet but we have to think about it now 

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11 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

He was still a skinny and unproven kid.

Takes some brass to throw a 17 year old straight into the Prem.

Not sure we would have done it if we had a 17 year old Greenwood in our U23 side.

We'd be far more likely sending him out on a loan before that.

 

I agree with you're sentiment but we were in a desperate situation for a long time till last year. You never know, he looks strong and could smash any opportunity he gets but is it a risk worth taking right now, or do we buy.

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I think it’s fairly safe to say we need another striker, even if it’s just for the season until we know where the yoof are at. That striker doesn’t have to be Tammy though, others are available. And before someone asks me to start listing them, I can’t do that, as I’m not a football scout and have limited knowledge of global football. 

The reasons why it won’t be Tammy have been mentioned enough in the previous 768 pages of this thread. Plus do we even have any credible links that say Smith is interested?

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8 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

we don’t know the full circumstances and can we really blame Wes for getting worked up or aggressive if someone puts in a dirty foul or makes a mocking comment after all he’s been through

Whilst I agree there could be mitigating circumstances that we don’t know about, I’d imagine that dirty little tackles and windup comments are all part of the game. He should have learnt by now that this is part of the game, like it or not and it’s part of being a professional footballer to not let yourself be wound up in that way. I’ve seen it on football and rugby pitches when playing at a much lower level, you just have to deal with it. 

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8 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Trying to use today’s game as justification for signing Tammy would be weak/poor…

Yes, Wesley let us and himself down today but there is no need for massive overreactions or wanting to get rid because of an isolated incident in a one off, friendly game… we don’t know the full circumstances and can we really blame Wes for getting worked up or aggressive if someone puts in a dirty foul or makes a mocking comment after all he’s been through? He’s had to battle his way back.

But yes, this doesn’t justify his actions today… that was poor.

Our main problem is in midfield, that’s what we need to sort out. And anyway, it’s a preseason game/friendly where we have a mix of seniors and youngsters playing, trying to build up form and fitness… not the right time to be making big or definitive judgement calls…

I’ve been consistent about the fact that I would not mind having Tammy here but it would have to be under the right conditions, we’re absolutely not going to get him for a bargain fee and wages… Chelsea aren’t lunatics or small time buffoons like Arsenal…

A loan to buy deal would be great… that would help us and make financial sense…

I often see joke or sarcastic comments claiming that people only want 11 players.. that’s completely nonsensical. We all know we need a good squad, including cover and competition. But it’s all going to be dictated by our finances/budget and our priorities.

Tammy isn’t the only forward or CF we could sign and a bit of versatility and value would help us… it seems to be Tammy or no one for some… it’s being quite incessant and annoying, especially when ignoring other factors and points made by people with different or opposing views… you have to listen to each other to be heard and understood…

We need to get that midfield area sorted out so that we can actually get a hold of the ball and keep it, create chances and dictate the play a bit.

We still have players that are careless and loose in possession… that is the highest priority issue to solve or remedy…

Would having Tammy on the pitch have really helped us today, for example? It’s not like we were creating multiple chances and failing to put them away…

Again, what’s the point in splashing out or using up a huge bulk of our budget on strikers if we can’t constantly give them service?

I also see claims that Ollie has had a poor game or gone off the boil, people are forgetting that we struggled without Jack and Barkley became absolutely useless… Ollie worked his socks off just to try and create opportunities for himself and was even successful at times, nicking the ball of opposing defenders…

We need to strengthen the team and squad, nobody is objecting to that. But in the most sensible and beneficial way…

Great post , our midfield were miles away from Ollie leaving him isolated, midfield not breaking forward or retaining possession well enough , regarding a second striker the young guns aren’t ready yet and Wes doesn’t look anywhere near ( Walsall and cameo today ) even before the brain fart today and KD just no , a loan of an established striker would be great or we buy an in between striker who’s had a year or so in the championship who maybe good enough to rest Ollie and add a bit of competition to the young guns on their way through 

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11 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

We need to strengthen the team and squad, nobody is objecting to that. But in the most sensible and beneficial way…

Yep and I think after a CAM/Winger then striker is number 2 priority IMO 

12 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Trying to use today’s game as justification for signing Tammy would be weak/poor…

Nope, it’s adding to the already substantial reasons to do it

12 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Our main problem is in midfield, that’s what we need to sort out.

Re point 1 above.  I know you want a DCM, that’s 3rd on my list.

13 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

I often see joke or sarcastic comments claiming that people only want 11 players.. that’s completely nonsensical.

No joke! some keep saying no to every player speculated because we either have somebody in that position or they won’t replace that person so why bother.  Sick of reading that on different players threads 

16 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Would having Tammy on the pitch have really helped us today, for example? It’s not like we were creating multiple chances and failing to put them away…

Difference being is that is all our strikers today, we have nothing else.  

Our midfield and defence still have players to come back.  Martinez, Mings, Sanson, Luiz, Trez, Traore and Grealish.

So in a normal match we’d have all those players but no options for striker, that’s the difference.

20 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Tammy isn’t the only forward or CF we could sign and a bit of versatility and value would help us… it seems to be Tammy or no one for some… it’s being quite incessant and annoying, especially when ignoring other factors and points made by people with different or opposing views… you have to listen to each other to be heard and understood…

Goes both ways for a lot of posters.  I think Tammy is our best option but as I’ve said many times even on the match thread today we just need competition for Ollie.  I hope it’s Tammy but would be happy with any quality.  I’m not convinced that’s Alvarez for reasons I’ve posted today.  I would love Alvarez but not at the expense of a quality striker.  Alvarez is for the future not straight away.

22 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Again, what’s the point in splashing out or using up a huge bulk of our budget on strikers if we can’t constantly give them service?

Grealish, Buendia, Traore and possibly somebody like Bailey…I think we’ll be ok

 

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1 minute ago, nick76 said:

Yep and I think after a CAM/Winger then striker is number 2 priority IMO 

Nope, it’s adding to the already substantial reasons to do it

Re point 1 above.  I know you want a DCM, that’s 3rd on my list.

No joke! some keep saying no to every player speculated because we either have somebody in that position or they won’t replace that person so why bother.  Sick of reading that on different players threads 

Difference being is that is all our strikers today, we have nothing else.  

Our midfield and defence still have players to come back.  Martinez, Mings, Sanson, Luiz, Trez, Traore and Grealish.

So in a normal match we’d have all those players but no options for striker, that’s the difference.

Goes both ways for a lot of posters.  I think Tammy is our best option but as I’ve said many times even on the match thread today we just need competition for Ollie.  I hope it’s Tammy but would be happy with any quality.  I’m not convinced that’s Alvarez for reasons I’ve posted today.  I would love Alvarez but not at the expense of a quality striker.  Alvarez is for the future not straight away.

Grealish, Buendia, Traore and possibly somebody like Bailey…I think we’ll be ok

 

Mate, where do you get the energy? 
Can I have a dose? 🤣

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40 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

 

How are you convincing Abraham to join when you can't promise him regular gametime?

The only people that have got it into he won't come here unles he has first position are you lot who keep trying to say no to him coming to Villa.

For all you know he maybe happy as a no2 he's just looking for more football than what he's actually getting which is not existent. Tammy is just looking for a Coach who will use him and play him and Smith would even if Ollie is the main forward.

Even if Tammy isn't a no1 it doesn't mean he isn't going to get game time at Villa. There are many reasons I keep putting on this thread or that Nick and others have suggested why he'd see plenty of game time. Smith himself would easy interchange and change things up between the pair. Like I said Smith could start Tammy for 5 games and maybe then Smith starts Watkins for 3 games, then Tammy starts for two games while Watkins sees abit longer of a run. It isn't as if it's never been done before that method. Just Guarantee them game time the both of them and keep things as fresh as you can for the pair of them by switching them around. Sure your going to run a player more if he's on form more than the other but you may not always be able to do that if you have two quality forwards who you promised football to. however Smith may see that Tammy could have strengths that suit playing against a certain selection or run of opponents all while Watkins suits having a starting run against another selection of opponents, it's really all down to compromise and itcan be done.

It's all something that Coaches or managers are used to working out and problem solving with situations like this. It's looks as though we're heading toward this route the way things are going on because we don't have decent back ups that can do what is required to aid Watkins out.

Smith will have no choice so long as he has Wesley and Davis as backups to Watkins to run Warkins into the ground. However I believe if he had Tammy or Alvarez or Bailey then Smith will trust one of those to aid Watkins and have no problem in using any of those three or feel like he can't trust them to do a job. Otherwise as I said Watkins will play untill Watkins is burnt out, injured or for one reason or another can't play and Smith is forced to use Wesley or Davis which isn't a good sign of things to come. Smith must feel he can trust Davis or Wesley,Smith will surely be wishing for a new Forward and by God we need one now.

Watkins is ace but even he unfortunately is going to have dry spells, what's important is that we try to manage thatby bringing someone in that can help out. Like I said above, just like we need Buendia to aid Grealish so we wernt a one man creative team any longer, it's looking more and more we now need another Forward to aid Watkins sowe sent a one Forward scoring team. The only difference between the Grealish situation and the Watkins situation is one was a Creative/winger problem and this is new situation is a Forward/scoring problem bit does need sorting out.

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7 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Yep and I think after a CAM/Winger then striker is number 2 priority IMO 

Nope, it’s adding to the already substantial reasons to do it

Re point 1 above.  I know you want a DCM, that’s 3rd on my list.

No joke! some keep saying no to every player speculated because we either have somebody in that position or they won’t replace that person so why bother.  Sick of reading that on different players threads 

Difference being is that is all our strikers today, we have nothing else.  

Our midfield and defence still have players to come back.  Martinez, Mings, Sanson, Luiz, Trez, Traore and Grealish.

So in a normal match we’d have all those players but no options for striker, that’s the difference.

Goes both ways for a lot of posters.  I think Tammy is our best option but as I’ve said many times even on the match thread today we just need competition for Ollie.  I hope it’s Tammy but would be happy with any quality.  I’m not convinced that’s Alvarez for reasons I’ve posted today.  I would love Alvarez but not at the expense of a quality striker.  Alvarez is for the future not straight away.

Grealish, Buendia, Traore and possibly somebody like Bailey…I think we’ll be ok

 

I really think we need a leader or dominating (maybe even intimidating) presence in midfield… with a lot of quality & composure… someone who is not flustered, that would help us a lot imo. (Examples - Sangare*, Anguissa, Boubacar Kamara, Zakaria).

A figure like Mings in midfield would be  excellent, a leader and organiser… a strong presence and inspiration…

We need to look after the ball better and protect our back 4 and GK, reduce the pressure on them and reduce the frequency of them being exposed…

What also concerns me is that the players we have are in a bit of an uneasy situation… Sanson working his way back from injury, Luiz busy with Brazil and back late (no rest/break, no preseason), McGinn struggling for form and consistency (he needs to be in top physical condition to perform for us, fades and messes up badly when he tires). Youngsters are neither good enough or ready, Hourihane will be off and isn’t much use.

It’s quite a precarious situation in that Nakamba, despite his limitations, seems our only reliable option atm…

If we had them all fit and together, maybe we could work with them and improve them all in training… but that’s not the case right now.

Imo, we need to focus on this area.

CAM is important too, though I feel Buendia could be excellent there. Jack too.

So an extra attacker or two, such as a wide forward or winger would be welcome. Such as Bailey, pace, power, finishing… Alvarez would be a nice option  to ease in and develop, involve him from the bench, initially. The pair of them have the ability to cover at CF too..

El Ghazi is poor in play, he loses the ball too easily and rarely beats his man. I’d like us to strengthen well enough that he wouldn’t get as much of a look in as he has done… I do get frustrated with players that end up breaking down our play/attacks, usually in a careless manner or taking wasteful shots..

We’re on the lookout for another keeper (Steer has looked dodgy recently and has a poor injury record) and CB too (replace Engels).

If we have room left in both our wage and transfer budget, a striker would be great. If even possible, Tammy on loan would be very welcome.. but it doesn’t have to be him either… 

Anyway, I don’t want to repeat everything I’ve said about Tammy and the costs yet again…

 

I know we differ on our opinions and that’s absolutely fine, good that we can be calm and respectable about it. 
 

Personally, my priority is fixing and improving the team as a whole before bringing in another finisher… but that’s not saying we don’t need another one…

With Davis leaving, we could make room for one and someone who can actually score!

I’m not ready to write off Wes, not off the back of today’s game. But how soon or if he will be a reliable contributor for us is, I admit, a bit up in the air atm. He does have some time on his side though…

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55 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

I'm sure Dean, Lange and Purslow must be having similar discussions as we are, trying to work out the value he would add vs the cost.  Today must have been a bit of a wake up call if they intended to have Wes as back up and competition for Ollie.  For me ideally we would be trying to sign the next Watkins or Toney (maybe Dike?) before Brentford get them but if they decide we have the money and a way to keep Ollie and Tammy happy then I'm all for signing him.

That's probably exactly what's happening between the three amigos. They are probably seeing that there is a problem that needs addressing and that who do they bring in torectify the situation. Wesley for me after today has got the wrong attitude and temperament and yes we don't know what was said or know the full story but you can't go round doing what he did. Watkins needs reliable second striker behind him and challenging him for his position, do any of you feel that either Wesley or Davis can do that because i just do not one bit.

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9 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

The only people that have got it into he won't come here unles he has first position are you lot who keep trying to say no to him coming to Villa.

For all you know he maybe happy as a no2 he's just looking for more football than what he's actually getting which is not existent. Tammy is just looking for a Coach who will use him and play him and Smith would even if Ollie is the main forward.

Even if Tammy isn't a no1 it doesn't mean he isn't going to get game time at Villa. There are many reasons I keep putting on this thread or that Nick and others have suggested why he'd see plenty of game time. Smith himself would easy interchange and change things up between the pair. Like I said Smith could start Tammy for 5 games and maybe then Smith starts Watkins for 3 games, then Tammy starts for two games while Watkins sees abit longer of a run. It isn't as if it's never been done before that method. Just Guarantee them game time the both of them and keep things as fresh as you can for the pair of them by switching them around. Sure your going to run a player more if he's on form more than the other but you may not always be able to do that if you have two quality forwards who you promised football to. however Smith may see that Tammy could have strengths that suit playing against a certain selection or run of opponents all while Watkins suits having a starting run against another selection of opponents, it's really all down to compromise and itcan be done.

It's all something that Coaches or managers are used to working out and problem solving with situations like this. It's looks as though we're heading toward this route the way things are going on because we don't have decent back ups that can do what is required to aid Watkins out.

Smith will have no choice so long as he has Wesley and Davis as backups to Watkins to run Warkins into the ground. However I believe if he had Tammy or Alvarez or Bailey then Smith will trust one of those to aid Watkins and have no problem in using any of those three or feel like he can't trust them to do a job. Otherwise as I said Watkins will play untill Watkins is burnt out, injured or for one reason or another can't play and Smith is forced to use Wesley or Davis which isn't a good sign of things to come. Smith must feel he can trust Davis or Wesley,Smith will surely be wishing for a new Forward and by God we need one now.

Watkins is ace but even he unfortunately is going to have dry spells, what's important is that we try to manage thatby bringing someone in that can help out. Like I said above, just like we need Buendia to aid Grealish so we wernt a one man creative team any longer, it's looking more and more we now need another Forward to aid Watkins sowe sent a one Forward scoring team. The only difference between the Grealish situation and the Watkins situation is one was a Creative/winger problem and this is new situation is a Forward/scoring problem bit does need sorting out.

Same to you Dave, where do you get the energy man?

Let me in on your secret! 🤣

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31 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Mate, where do you get the energy? 
Can I have a dose? 🤣

Your sposed to be more supportive of Tammy coming here.

I feel close to start the idea of Deli Ali coming to Villa off again and sure Nick will support this idea 😂

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1 minute ago, Jas10 said:

Same to you Dave, where do you get the energy man?

Let me in on your secret! 🤣

What energy lol. I love debating as I'm sure Nick does as well I'd say we have become quite the debaters Inthis thread lol.

 

 

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Yeah sure we’ll sign Tammy. Then he’ll have to be fine to be on the bench for 99% of the time because he ain’t replacing Watkins.

There is no way we are signing an out and out rather high profile striker this summer. Someone more unproven yes but not Tammy even though I like him because of obvious reasons.

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