Tammy Abraham

[Dave-R]

18 hours ago, Jas10 said:

[Thug]

15 hours ago, thabucks said:

The thing is for the rumoured  £40 million price tag there is quite a selection of talented and more rounded strikers available. Tammy isn’t great at pressing nor creating something out of nothing himself. He can be a lethal finisher on his day no question, but is equally as wasteful when he’s off his game. He should be played regularly to get the most from him and that’s something we can look to offer with Watkins being main man in how we set up & play. 

Now I’m not against us buying a striker or spending big on one. My opinion is that I wouldn’t be spending it on Tammy who is little more than a finisher and £40million should get a more rounded player IMO. 

£40m gets you Joelinton

[sne]

4 minutes ago, Thug said:

£40m gets you Joelinton

Or 5 Michael Oliseh, or 3 Junio Firpo, or (almost) Patson Daka & Boubakary Soumaré, or 2 Raphinhas, or 2.5 Tomas Soucek...

Considering it's competition for Watkins rather than a dedicated starting striker we are after and that we have other pressing issues in the squad than those £40m is imo better used in other areas.

[CarryOnVilla]

[sparrow1988]

6 minutes ago, sne said:

Or 5 Michael Oliseh, or 3 Junio Firpo, or (almost) Patson Daka & Boubakary Soumaré, or 2 Raphinhas, or 2.5 Tomas Soucek...

Considering it's competition for Watkins rather than a dedicated starting striker we are after and that we have other pressing issues in the squad than those £40m is imo better used in other areas.

Do you mean 2 of the Leeds guy? 2 of Thiago's brother? Or one of each?

[Thug]

7 minutes ago, sne said:

Or 5 Michael Oliseh, or 3 Junio Firpo, or (almost) Patson Daka & Boubakary Soumaré, or 2 Raphinhas, or 2.5 Tomas Soucek...

Considering it's competition for Watkins rather than a dedicated starting striker we are after and that we have other pressing issues in the squad than those £40m is imo better used in other areas.

You’re just bringing up a list of players that have just been bought, that you have no idea how they will perform.

If Daka scores 30 goals this season he’ll be worth £100m.  If Oliseh has a blinding season he’ll be worth a hell of a lot more.  Or maybe neither will get a sniff, and be worth half of what they paid.

Soucek is worth £50m+, and Raphina prob the same - BECAUSE they’ve proven it.  
 

Abraham has scored premier league goals, that is what you pay the premium for.  He has proven capability.  Daka does not - hence the price difference.

 

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, sne said:

Or 5 Michael Oliseh, or 3 Junio Firpo, or (almost) Patson Daka & Boubakary Soumaré, or 2 Raphinhas, or 2.5 Tomas Soucek...

Considering it's competition for Watkins rather than a dedicated starting striker we are after and that we have other pressing issues in the squad than those £40m is imo better used in other areas.

or 2/3rds of a Pepe or just under 1 of a Haller.

Problem with most you mention we don’t know how they’ll perform or workout in the PL.  With Tammy you know exactly what you’ll be getting just some think that is enough and some don’t.  

I’d rather pay the premium to get certainty in our growth strategy.  I’d probably be different when we are more established in European places but until then the risk is too much for me generally for the lower prices. There are exceptions obviously to that but at the moment I’d rather sacrifice extra bodies to pay premium for low risk and Tammy fits that.

[nick76]

11 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said:

[sne]

19 minutes ago, nick76 said:

or 2/3rds of a Pepe or just under 1 of a Haller.

Problem with most you mention we don’t know how they’ll perform or workout in the PL.  With Tammy you know exactly what you’ll be getting just some think that is enough and some don’t.  

I’d rather pay the premium to get certainty in our growth strategy.  I’d probably be different when we are more established in European places but until then the risk is too much for me generally for the lower prices. There are exceptions obviously to that but at the moment I’d rather sacrifice extra bodies to pay premium for low risk and Tammy fits that.

We don't know how Tammy will perform either, how he would handle a permanent move away from his boyhood club after finding out he was not deemed good enough to play for them. If he could handle being a rotation player at a mid table club or that he'd even be interested to leave London permanently. He had a great loan spell here when we were in the  Championship, doesn't mean he'd be mentally up for moving here and restarting his career now.

Tammy could be a great signing even for £40m, but it's no more a given than any of the other guys mentioned. I rather not pay the premium in this case since we only play with 1 striker and already have Watkins. We are years away from where we should pay £40m for nice to have players.

[sne]

31 minutes ago, Thug said:

You’re just bringing up a list of players that have just been bought, that you have no idea how they will perform.

If Daka scores 30 goals this season he’ll be worth £100m.  If Oliseh has a blinding season he’ll be worth a hell of a lot more.  Or maybe neither will get a sniff, and be worth half of what they paid.

Soucek is worth £50m+, and Raphina prob the same - BECAUSE they’ve proven it.  
 

Abraham has scored premier league goals, that is what you pay the premium for.  He has proven capability.  Daka does not - hence the price difference.

 

But we are not after a leading striker, we are after someone who can help out and take the load off Watkins, that's why Tammy or anyone else for £40m doesn't make sense.

[nick76]

1 minute ago, sne said:

We don't know how Tammy will perform either, how he would handle a permanent move away from his boyhood club after finding out he was not deemed good enough to play for them. If he could handle being a rotation player at a mid table club or that he'd even be interested to leave London permanently. He had a great loan spell here when we were in the  Championship, doesn't mean he'd be mentally up for moving here and restarting his career now.

Tammy could be a great signing even for £40m, but it's no more a given than any of the other guys mentioned. I rather not pay the premium in this case since we only play with 1 striker and already have Watkins. We are years away from where we should pay £40m for nice to have players.

You can’t argue that Tammy would be in the same ball park as the others in terms of risk.  

There is always risk with any transfer but each factor increases the risk hence why Smith and co said first they’d look at British based players.  

Knowing that a player can play in this league, adapted to the culture, language and environment is a huge risk for any foreign player.  We also know that Tammy fits with the squad because he knows a lot of them, knows the club and played with some of them very well and wouldn’t need time to settle.  

These are massive hurdles that can make or break foreign players, we’ve seen ourselves that successful foreign based players can take six, twelve, eighteen months to settle before you really see their talent.  

Tammy is nowhere near that kind of risk profile and I don’t see Tammy as a “nice to have” player, he’ll be a key member competing for the forwards position.

[nick76]

11 minutes ago, sne said:

But we are not after a leading striker, we are after someone who can help out and take the load off Watkins, that's why Tammy or anyone else for £40m doesn't make sense.

It makes perfect sense plus you seem fixed on 40m.  The original piece I put up said 40m but we’ve seen other quotes, one being 38m euros which is 33m gbp.  Strikers cost money especially at the level we are at now, so when you factor in PL experience and only being 23 years old who can make quality impact then it costs money.  This deal makes perfect sense if we are looking to challenge for European places.

[villa89]

Sign him on loan for 1 season for ~£10m with an option to buy next summer for £25m. That way we can see how he fares out and send him back if he's ross barkley. 

[sne]

6 minutes ago, nick76 said:

You can’t argue that Tammy would be in the same ball park as the others in terms of risk.  

There is always risk with any transfer but each factor increases the risk hence why Smith and co said first they’d look at British based players.  

Knowing that a player can play in this league, adapted to the culture, language and environment is a huge risk for any foreign player.  We also know that Tammy fits with the squad because he knows a lot of them, knows the club and played with some of them very well and wouldn’t need time to settle.  

These are massive hurdles that can make or break foreign players, we’ve seen ourselves that successful foreign based players can take six, twelve, eighteen months to settle before you really see their talent.  

Tammy is nowhere near that kind of risk profile and I don’t see Tammy as a “nice to have” player, he’ll be a key member competing for the forwards position.

No I agree with that, but those players I mentioned are not brought in to lead the way in their first seasons and no one expects them too either. They are young squad players who's expected to chip in with minutes when needed, to learn and develop. But they've also proved the can handle themselves and that they are very talented. Bit like how I'd like to think if we bring in a new striker.

And I think we have very different views on what a key player is and on how much our second in line attacker would play. 

Anyway I'm not gonna try and convince you and you've explained your position on the matter in length many many times so we'll not agree on this one.

[Phil Silvers]

As we stand, if we lose Ollie for a few games, I think we could comfortably go 433 with Jack Emi Bertie with a SJM Sanson Dougie behind. 

Can see us just going with Wes until Xmas and then reevaluate. Makes sense, if we are shakey then spend .

[Thug]

44 minutes ago, sne said:

But we are not after a leading striker, we are after someone who can help out and take the load off Watkins, that's why Tammy or anyone else for £40m doesn't make sense.

Then we’ve got Wesley in that case.

[sne]

2 minutes ago, Thug said:

Then we’ve got Wesley in that case.

Yeah hopefully, but his 18 months out due to injury makes him a huge ?

[Thug]

1 minute ago, sne said:

Yeah hopefully, but his 18 months out due to injury makes him a huge ?

Well exactly my point.

if we want a tried and tested backup, then it’s going to cost £££

if we just want a back up, then we’ve got a ? already, no point in spending £20m on another ?  Better off getting a journeyman loan.

All a moot point really, I don’t think Tammy would come here to be a backup.  But if he was willing, then I’d be up for signing him.

[sne]

Just now, Thug said:

Well exactly my point.

if we want a tried and tested backup, then it’s going to cost £££

if we just want a back up, then we’ve got a ? already, no point in spending £20m on another ?  Better off getting a journeyman loan.

All a moot point really, I don’t think Tammy would come here to be a backup.  But if he was willing, then I’d be up for signing him.

And I don't think there is a chance in h that the club would spend the money Tammy would cost unless it is for a starting role, and I don't think the club feels we need a starting striker.

[Thug]

2 minutes ago, sne said:

And I don't think there is a chance in h that the club would spend the money Tammy would cost unless it is for a starting role, and I don't think the club feels we need a starting striker.

I don’t think you’re wrong.

but none of know anything for sure.

But let me ask you this;

IF we were able to spend £40m on Tammy without affecting our other targets

AND he was willing to come.

 

would you be happy with us getting him?