James Ward-Prowse

[brommy]

2 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

I very much doubt he's grafting

In fairness, it’s difficult to graft when holding a glass against a wall.

[Kiwivillan]

31 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

tackles:

74 McGinn and 84 Ward-Prowse 

Blocks

39 McGinn, 71 Ward-Prowse

These stats are wrong and I'm using OPTA sourced and confirmed on official PL site. 118 vs 116 tackles in favour of McGinn. 6 vs 4 blocks in favour of McGinn. The most blocks by a midfielder in 20/21 season was 31 by Eric Dier. Douglas Luiz 4th with 17

Edited June 10, 2021 by Kiwivillan

[MotoMkali]

13 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

These stats are wrong and I'm using OPTA sourced and confirmed on official PL site. 118 vs 116 tackles in favour of McGinn. 6 vs 4 blocks in favour of McGinn. The most blocks by a midfielder in 20/21 season was 31 by Eric Dier. Douglas Luiz 4th with 17

I'm sorry but you are wrong.

According to the premier league website Ward Prowse made 75 tackles to Mcginns 61.

And using whoscored which. Acquires all its data from opts supports this as well. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by MotoMkali

[Kiwivillan]

2 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

I'm sorry but you are wrong.

According to the premier league website Ward Prowse made 75 tackles to Mcginns 61.

And using whoscored which. Acquires all its data from opts supports this as well. 

I did make a mistake. It's attempted vs successful and the 75 vs 61 in JWP favour is correct. 

But the 6 vs 4 blocks is correct

[MotoMkali]

3 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

I'm sorry but you are wrong.

According to the premier league website Ward Prowse made 75 tackles to Mcginns 61.

And using whoscored which. Acquires all its data from opts supports this as well. 

Right and to sort a previous arguement mcginn had 1 more interception than Prowse in 90 fewer minutes. So they are basically the same quality at interceptions. 

And for some fun McGinn dispossessed 35 times, Douglas Luiz 18,  JWP 14.

[MotoMkali]

14 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

I did make a mistake. It's attempted vs successful and the 75 vs 61 in JWP favour is correct. 

But the 6 vs 4 blocks is correct

Yes but we also have some of the highest shots blocked stats in the league. 1st and 4th among all players play for Villa. Burnley's cbs have the same number of blocked shots as ours.

Luiz is 3rd among Midfielders in blocked shots (Dier is a cb and has mostly played there this season). Only Kouyate and Soucek have more. Nakamba is in the 99th percentile for shots blocked per 90 as a midfielder. Ramsey also has 6 blocked shots. Evidently we set up to block shots from coming in. 

We blocked 159 shots southhampton blocked 95. Burnley had 180 or 190 (it was round number and they were miles ahead of us, I did it by calculator and can't remember now).

Edited June 11, 2021 by MotoMkali

[Kiwivillan]

2 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

(Dier is a cb and has mostly played there this season). Only Kouyate and Soucek have more.

I was going to leave Dier out for this reason. Kouyate 1st with 27 in that case

[MotoMkali]

1 minute ago, Kiwivillan said:

I was going to leave Dier out for this reason. Kouyate 1st with 27 in that case

My point is in my opinion Ward-Prowse is no worse than Mcginn at blocking shots. That just isn't what Southampton want their midfielders doing. 

[Kiwivillan]

1 minute ago, MotoMkali said:

My point is in my opinion Ward-Prowse is no worse than Mcginn at blocking shots. That just isn't what Southampton want their midfielders doing. 

I don't have a problem with JWP. I just think the rumour is bogus and he'd cost too much because of 5 year contract. McGinn is our player. Does JWP outperform him in certain areas. Sure 

[MotoMkali]

3 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

I don't have a problem with JWP. I just think the rumour is bogus and he'd cost too much because of 5 year contract. McGinn is our player. Does JWP outperform him in every area that matters for a non attacking midfielder. Sure 

McGinn is our player but he is the player that needs upgrading aside from el ghazi. And there is a decent chance we play Buendia as a LW as that is where he played before joining Norwich so it isn't as pressing as mcginn.

Frankly he is consistently our worst non barkley performer giving the ball away constantly. The only players who who give away the ball as much as him are wingers and attacking midfielders who have far more creative duties. And Schlupp. 

[sne]

8 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

For John McGinn with Conor Hourihane's dead ball delivery? Absolutely, yes. 

I'm not saying that is necessarily what he will bring, but if that is how he is viewed then I can absolutely see why they might like to sign him. 

To be honest, £40-50m is yesterdays £20m. The numbers in the PL are obscene, I don't think we've quite gotten used to what it will take in order to progress, yet. £40-50m also potentially buys you a bag of shit, and he is definitely not that?

Agree to disagree on this one 

£50m would still be a obscene sum, especially in the Covid economy. And I don't agree that the inflation in football has been that great, unless you go back 20-30 years. 

Fwiw I have no issue with us spending this kind of money on the right player going forward, I just don't think JWP is such a player. I also don't think he offers enough difference to what we already have in CM (apart from set pieces). Nothing against him as a player, he's probably a bit better than most of the ones we have, not enough to warrant that fee thou IMO.

[Guest av1]

6 hours ago, thunderball said:

I so want to believe this. I can just picture your mate up a ladder in the corner of Lange’s office taking suspiciously too long to fit a light bulb……

Bulbs grow in gardens, it’s a lamp 

[QldVilla]

JWP is the better player between him and McGinn. Don’t needs stats to tell me that truth.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

7 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

Right and to sort a previous arguement mcginn had 1 more interception than Prowse in 90 fewer minutes. So they are basically the same quality at interceptions. 

And for some fun McGinn dispossessed 35 times, Douglas Luiz 18,  JWP 14.

This. It was the essence of my posts: retaining the ball, successful passes completed. JWP doubles McGinn's output.

Fine, defensive statistics are similar but range of passes, completion percentage, goals, assists and free-kicks it's JWP all day long.

Yet the logic on VT is to deflect that and focus on something completely different to protect McGinn. It's ridiculous.

Football is about constant improvement and yes we are improving but the team is always more important.

[MrBlack]

1 hour ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

This. It was the essence of my posts: retaining the ball, successful passes completed. JWP doubles McGinn's output.

Fine, defensive statistics are similar but range of passes, completion percentage, goals, assists and free-kicks it's JWP all day long.

Yet the logic on VT is to deflect that and focus on something completely different to protect McGinn. It's ridiculous.

Football is about constant improvement and yes we are improving but the team is always more important.

McGinn didn't get much opportunity to demonstrate his attacking prowess this season, thanks to our playing of Barkely in that role for large parts. When he was played, or allowed to progress, further up the pitch, he looked better. 

Not sure there is a world of difference between the two, except for the set piece capabilities being massively in JWP's favour, and also something we are seriously lacking. To be honest,  that alone is enough to make me want to sign JWP. If he turns out to be better in our system than McGinn as well, it's a bonus.

I'm not convinced that JWP's open play stats would look as good as they do for Southampton had he played in our team last year in place of McGinn, he simply would have had less to do further up the pitch.  

[Pez1974]

Despite everything being said - if the management think he's the right player, we should get him.

In the modern game, it more often the midfielders who get rotated, and I think this has been Deano's mistakes this season, as Luiz and McGinn were clearly exhausted at times, but he didn't trust his squad and didn't make subs early enough to change games.
Plus, we are aiming for Europe, and may want to actually put some cup runs together, meaning there will be more games and requiring more rotation.

A midfield pack of Luiz, McGinn, Sanson, Nakamba and Ramsey isn't enough. I think people agree we need a DCM; add a JWP into that, and suddenly we have real depth and quality, and some flexibility to play different systems.

 

[sidcow]

3 hours ago, QldVilla said:

JWP is the better player between him and McGinn. Don’t needs stats to tell me that truth.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

EG, unsuccessful passes.  Does that distinguish between an attempted through ball intercepted in the final third or a miss hit pass on the edge of your box straight to the opposition striker?

[Delphinho123]

I don't think we'd bring in both Sarr and JWP without moving a player on.
Personally, and this is an unpopular opinion, I wouldn't be too bothered if we sold both Luiz and Nakamba. 

[CVByrne]

I see our midfield as our weakest aspect. We've an amazing front three and back five. McGinn, Luiz, Nakamba aren't good enough for where we want to get to. I feel McGinn is as good as he'll get, Luiz has potential and Nakamba is a squad player or to be moved on in a year or two. 

Sanson get's a chance to show what he can do and we need another midfield signing in there. Ward Prowse is better than who we have so would improve us. 

[bose]

I dont get the McGinn and JWP comparisons. They are very different players.

JWP is more defensive and better as a deeper midfielder. We’ve seen the best of McGinn when he gets to make driving runs and playing further up.