Popular Post KentVillan Posted June 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just now, Kiwivillan said: Funny. I don't routinely claim inside knowledge of transfers on VT and have been posting on here for over a decade. Let's see how it pans out. I personally think Southampton will be absolutely gutted if they lose JWP to Villa at any price. It has a very Gareth Barry to Man City feel to it - a transfer that could send a club on a downward spiral. So it's possible they will just block it. But my sense is they're a selling club, and we'll find a price. The arguments against it happening all seem to hinge on "but we don't need him, why would we sign him", which is clearly nonsense - he'd improve the squad. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: Doyle tweeted this 11 minutes after tweeting his JWP article. Look at the ... at the end. Smacks of transfer rumour invention Jack Grealish has been the most fouled player in the PL for the last two season (despite missing 12 matches last season)... ^ now this is clutching at straws 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 59 minutes ago, maqroll said: The player is probably thinking Soton are leveling off and aren't going to take the next step. He might see Villa as an intriguing project where he will get more playing time than if he went to a Super League side. I can see why he would be interested in joining us… I just don’t see why we would be so keen… but I would more than welcome his set piece expertise… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 59 minutes ago, KentVillan said: The arguments against it happening all seem to hinge on "but we don't need him, why would we sign him", which is clearly nonsense - he'd improve the squad. Genuine question - do you think he’s that good? Enough of an upgrade? At the amount he would cost? Improving the squad is fine but in that regard there is surely better value, I assume he would cost at least 40m. The free kicks are hugely appealing but is he really any/much better than McGinn & Sanson? Our numbers are quite good for CMs, especially box to box types, we could do with a different type/option in there (DM). Squad size has to be considered too and who would be moved on… At that cost, I would expect a significant upgrade… Genuinely asking, to those that have a better/fuller point of view or judgement. I’m not saying I don’t rate the player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Kiwivillan said: Doyle tweeted this 11 minutes after tweeting his JWP article. Look at the ... at the end. Smacks of transfer rumour invention Jack Grealish has been the most fouled player in the PL for the last two season (despite missing 12 matches last season)... Kiwi I’ll say again though you don’t seem to want to hear it - Paul Doyle is not someone who makes up rumours. This might well be wrong. I personally don’t think it will happen. Maybe he’s been fed a line. But he will not have ‘invented’ it. That’s not his role or his game. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Genuine question - do you think he’s that good? Enough of an upgrade? At the amount he would cost? Improving the squad is fine but in that regard there is surely better value, I assume he would cost at least 40m. The free kicks are hugely appealing but is he really any/much better than McGinn & Sanson? Our numbers are quite good for CMs, especially box to box types, we could do with a different type/option in there (DM). Squad size has to be considered too and who would be moved on… At that cost, I would expect a significant upgrade… Genuinely asking, to those that have a better/fuller point of view or judgement. I’m not saying I don’t rate the player. I posted in another thread a week ago that if we could drop £40m on any (realistic) PL signing it would be him so I would say so. He’s better than any of our midfielders (maybe not DL if DL achieves his full potential, but better now) and then you add his free kicks on top as a bonus. But on the flip side I think signing him would mean we were playing 4-3-3 more often than 4-5-1 and I really like Traore so I’m not sure I would want that. (That said for all I insist to @Kiwivillan above that Doyle won’t be making this up, there is a part of me that wonders if someone somewhere in the chain has made up something from that conversation - but that’s because I believe 99% of rumours we see actually originate on this site then get parroted back to us ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KentVillan Posted June 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Genuine question - do you think he’s that good? Enough of an upgrade? At the amount he would cost? Improving the squad is fine but in that regard there is surely better value, I assume he would cost at least 40m. The free kicks are hugely appealing but is he really any/much better than McGinn & Sanson? Our numbers are quite good for CMs, especially box to box types, we could do with a different type/option in there (DM). Squad size has to be considered too and who would be moved on… At that cost, I would expect a significant upgrade… Genuinely asking, to those that have a better/fuller point of view or judgement. I’m not saying I don’t rate the player. It's a good question. I think in a like-for-like comparison with individual players in the squad, he's not miles ahead of McGinn, Sanson, Luiz, etc. but he is more consistent and has a better injury record. However, when you think about the team as a whole, one of the things we are badly missing is set piece delivery. That's not just direct FKs around the box, but deep FKs, corners, etc. JWP would be on all of those, and would massively improve our numbers. He got 8 goals and 7 assists last season in a poor Southampton side. Guardiola reckons he's the best FK taker he's ever seen. Regardless of what you think about Pep's hyperbole, he's almost certainly the best FK taker in the PL at present. He can also play multiple positions (CM, RB, DM, AM), which gives us more flexibility for midgame tactical switches. What you're getting is a very good midfielder, with an excellent fitness record and attitude (two things we clearly target in the transfer market), who also has a unique skill that the team currently lacks. I agree he's not the sort of elite midfielder that perhaps we all want, but he'll be a key figure if he signs, no doubt about that. EDIT: And yes, massive chance of it not happening at all. But I'm pretty sure the club are trying to make it happen. Doyle hasn't made this up. Edited June 9, 2021 by KentVillan 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Adam2003 said: I posted in another thread a week ago that if we could drop £40m on any (realistic) PL signing it would be him so I would say so. He’s better than any of our midfielders (maybe not DL if DL achieves his full potential, but better now) and then you add his free kicks on top as a bonus. But on the flip side I think signing him would mean we were playing 4-3-3 more often than 4-5-1 and I really like Traore so I’m not sure I would want that. (That said for all I insist to @Kiwivillan above that Doyle won’t be making this up, there is a part of me that wonders if someone somewhere in the chain has made up something from that conversation - but that’s because I believe 99% of rumours we see actually originate on this site then get parroted back to us ) Thanks. At 40m (at least that, probably more!) who are the alternatives? I’m quite surprised to see you state that but respect your opinion… He’s just never stood out to me or seemed exceptional, taking away his free kicks. I don’t see him as one of the better players in the league. I continue to think about his free kick ability and how much that would benefit us though… but there are other players out there that can offer that… Edited June 9, 2021 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, Jas10 said: Thanks. At 40m who are the alternatives, quite surprised to see you state that but respect your opinion… He’s just never stood out to me or seemed exceptional, taking away his free kicks. I don’t see him as one of the better players in the league. I continue to think about his free kick ability and how much that would benefit us though… but there are other players out there that can offer that… To be fair in that thread (which was before all the rumours) I WAS talking about his set piece ability and how I think it would be worth 10 goals per season for us… but I think he’s a lovely player outside of that. But I’m not one who thinks we need a DCM… and I DO think £40m is expensive and don’t think they will sell him for less than that. So I don’t think it’ll happen. I would prefer him for our squad though to anyone else from a bottom half PL club, that’s maybe a better way to say it. More than Saint-Maximin from Newcastle for example *for our squad*. Maybe McNeil from Burnley before we signed Buendia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, KentVillan said: It's a good question. I think in a like-for-like comparison with individual players in the squad, he's not miles ahead of McGinn, Sanson, Luiz, etc. but he is more consistent and has a better injury record. However, when you think about the team as a whole, one of the things we are badly missing is set piece delivery. That's not just direct FKs around the box, but deep FKs, corners, etc. JWP would be on all of those, and would massively improve our numbers. He got 8 goals and 7 assists last season in a poor Southampton side. Guardiola reckons he's the best FK taker he's ever seen. Regardless of what you think about Pep's hyperbole, he's almost certainly the best FK taker in the PL at present. He can also play multiple positions (CM, RB, DM, AM), which gives us more flexibility for midgame tactical switches. What you're getting is a very good midfielder, with an excellent fitness record and attitude (two things we clearly target in the transfer market), who also has a unique skill that the team currently lacks. I agree he's not the sort of elite midfielder that perhaps we all want, but he'll be a key figure if he signs, no doubt about that. Thanks for responding. Is he good value at 40m+ plus though? There are other free kick specialists out there that offer other things and could genuinely upgrade us and improve on a key position… I still want us to play with a CAM, we saw how good we were at the star of the season. But I think any one of Jack, Buendia & Traore will play there… or they will interchange. We have to control the size of the squad and Dean has said we can’t stockpile players so we need top quality in all areas and good backups/alternatives if we want to climb that table… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, Adam2003 said: To be fair in that thread (which was before all the rumours) I WAS talking about his set piece ability and how I think it would be worth 10 goals per season for us… but I think he’s a lovely player outside of that. But I’m not one who thinks we need a DCM… and I DO think £40m is expensive and don’t think they will sell him for less than that. So I don’t think it’ll happen. I would prefer him for our squad though to anyone else from a bottom half PL club, that’s maybe a better way to say it. More than Saint-Maximin from Newcastle for example *for our squad*. Maybe McNeil from Burnley before we signed Buendia. Do you not think we would have too many CMs? That we’d have to offload one or two? And who would it be? I keep getting the impression that Sanson is getting overlooked… he will be like a new signing next season and could potentially be the best CM out of the lot… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Do you not think we would have too many CMs? That we’d have to offload one or two? And who would it be? I keep getting the impression that Sanson is getting overlooked… he will be like a new signing next season and could potentially be the best CM out of the lot… Yeah that’s why I’m saying we would have to play a 4-3-3 if we sign him which isn’t actually my preference. As in three dedicated CMs - two 8s and a 6 as the kids say, rather than a number 10. I think Sanson has a ton of potential as well. So realistically you might be right and we might have to offload someone. I don’t think we will pay the money for him - I think we will sign cover at left back and maybe one more young player somewhere. I think Buendia was our big signing. Edited June 9, 2021 by Adam2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, Jas10 said: Thanks for responding. Is he good value at 40m+ plus though? There are other free kick specialists out there that offer other things and could genuinely upgrade us and improve on a key position… I still want us to play with a CAM, we saw how good we were at the star of the season. But I think any one of Jack, Buendia & Traore will play there… or they will interchange. We have to control the size of the squad and Dean has said we can’t stockpile players so we need top quality in all areas and good backups/alternatives if we want to climb that table… Players always look expensive every transfer window, and then 2 years later they're going for double that. It's just always a crazy market, and getting a handle on fair value is hard to do in real time. There really aren't any comparable FK specialists on the market afaik who would meet Smith's other requirements. Not at this price or lower, anyway. Who did you have in mind? I think midfield is where we've seen the most burnout in our players, and it makes sense to keep adding quality there. It's not about stockpiling players. It's about competition for places and being able to rotate. My impression is people just haven't watched very much of JWP outside the highlight reels / Villa games, and don't realise quite how consistently good he is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Adam2003 said: To be fair in that thread (which was before all the rumours) I WAS talking about his set piece ability and how I think it would be worth 10 goals per season for us… but I think he’s a lovely player outside of that. But I’m not one who thinks we need a DCM… and I DO think £40m is expensive and don’t think they will sell him for less than that. So I don’t think it’ll happen. I would prefer him for our squad though to anyone else from a bottom half PL club, that’s maybe a better way to say it. More than Saint-Maximin from Newcastle for example *for our squad*. Maybe McNeil from Burnley before we signed Buendia. I am starting to dream about the free kicks… both delivery from corners and indirects & also goals from direct free kicks… I can’t even remember the last expert set piece taker we had… We’ll finally be able to capitalise on all the fouls Jack wins and Buendia & Traore will win plenty too… He will get a lot of opportunities and practise… It would be a great move for JWP and a step up… It’s why I’m starting coming around to the idea of this… But again, why JWP? Why not a star CAM or WF with that special ability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, Adam2003 said: Yeah that’s why I’m saying we would have to play a 4-3-3 if we sign him which isn’t actually my preference. As in three dedicated CMs - two 8s and a 6 as the kids say, rather than a number 10. I think Sanson has a ton of potential as well. Na I want us to play with CAM… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Jas10 said: Na I want us to play with CAM… Yeah agreed - I am excited by Grealish - Buendia - Traore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 minute ago, KentVillan said: Players always look expensive every transfer window, and then 2 years later they're going for double that. It's just always a crazy market, and getting a handle on fair value is hard to do in real time. There really aren't any comparable FK specialists on the market afaik who would meet Smith's other requirements. Not at this price or lower, anyway. Who did you have in mind? I think midfield is where we've seen the most burnout in our players, and it makes sense to keep adding quality there. It's not about stockpiling players. It's about competition for places and being able to rotate. My impression is people just haven't watched very much of JWP outside the highlight reels / Villa games, and don't realise quite how consistently good he is. I didn’t have any particular player in mind but there are so many talented ones out there… I don’t have the knowledge base to pull from nowadays… I liked the look of De Arrascaeta… linked to him a while ago. My dream, and highly unlikely, signing would be Milinkovic-Savic. A beast of a midfielder and he strikes a mean free kick too… not gonna happen but would be elated if it somehow did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, Adam2003 said: Yeah agreed - I am excited by Grealish - Buendia - Traore. Me too… Ollie is going to thrive!! What a signing Buendia is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, KentVillan said: My impression is people just haven't watched very much of JWP outside the highlight reels / Villa games, and don't realise quite how consistently good he is. Agree with this. I’ve watched him for some reason for years - always caught my eye for England U21 and I liked Southampton because I liked Steven Davis - and I think he’s a really good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) Consistently good but not exceptional… that doesn’t strike me as £40m+ player. And British/English players have always been overpriced and overrated, at least imo. He’s never stood out to me in games except when he takes a good free kick. What are his standout qualities apart from that? Where does he excel beyond our midfielders? More of a steady eddie? Expensive… Edited June 9, 2021 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts