Laughable Chimp Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, PeterSw said: Do you have a stat for the amount of goals scored/assisted from direct free kicks for us from last season? If JWP can give us an extra 8-10 goals a season from free-kicks, they could prove crucial to our league position. In terms of the £40-50m price tag, if we can afford it and not mess up FFP, go for it. Transfer fees are only going up. I mean, we didn't score any goal from direct free kicks last season I can tell you that much without even checking anything. As for assists, we apparently scored 5 from "set-pieces" last season according to understat. https://understat.com/team/Aston_Villa/2020 By "set-pieces", its mostly indirect free kicks that don't go directly into the goal but the goal is still quite a clearly a result of the whole free kick movement. 1- Barkley free kick resulting in a cross by Trezeguet for a Watkins header. 7-2 win over Liverpool. 2- Mcginn(I think) quick free kick to Grealish who crosses it to Trezeguet who scores. 2-1 Loss to Man utd. 3- Hourihane free kick straight to Mings who scores. 3-0 win over Fulham 4- Traore free kick to Konsa who scores. 2-1 Loss to Brighton For some reason I can't find the fifth one. Note only 2 of these goals came directly from the free kick taker crossing the ball into the path of someone who scores, the one Hourihane and Traore takes. I also know the fifth one is not this type of goal. All of JWP's free kick assists last season are this type of goal hoever. Edited August 19, 2021 by Laughable Chimp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted August 19, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 19, 2021 Is this Trey ITK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Just now, tomav84 said: 50m is the going rate. we'd be asking that for mings if someone came knocking. club captain with england caps It is but there would be better value in Europe. I’d prefer us to pay the extra for JWP than take a chance on another unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted August 19, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 19, 2021 Just now, Vive_La_Villa said: It is but there would be better value in Europe. I’d prefer us to pay the extra for JWP than take a chance on another unknown. that's where i am we expect to have one or 2 outgoings to supplement whatever fee we have to pay too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 50m?? That sounds like Kamada and Kamara. But not my money so I don't care. @Laughable Chimp re the stats around JWP does he not play deeper? Does he have good 'key passes' stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 9 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: I mean, we didn't score any goal from direct free kicks last season I can tell you that much without even checking anything. As for assists, we apparently scored 5 from "set-pieces" last season according to understat. https://understat.com/team/Aston_Villa/2020 By "set-pieces", its mostly indirect free kicks that don't go directly into the goal but the goal is still quite a clearly a result of the whole free kick movement. 1- Barkley free kick resulting in a cross by Trezeguet for a Watkins header. 7-2 win over Liverpool. 2- Mcginn(I think) quick free kick to Grealish who crosses it to Trezeguet who scores. 2-1 Loss to Man utd. 3- Hourihane free kick straight to Mings who scores. 3-0 win over Fulham 4- Traore free kick to Konsa who scores. 2-1 Loss to Brighton For some reason I can't find the fifth one. Note only 2 of these goals came directly from the free kick taker crossing the ball into the path of someone who scores, the one Hourihane and Traore takes. I also know the fifth one is not this type of goal. All of JWP's free kick assists last season are this type of goal hoever. According to whoscored.com we scored 11 set piece goals last season. Konsa also missed about 5 great chances from corners Southampton scored 15 from set pieces 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: I also think Ward-Prowse should have gone to the Euros and played more. The balance of Ward-Prowse and Rice would have been better. Phillips was good but disappeared at times and was wasteful with the ball especially in the final (England struggled with possession against Italy). England also obviously fluffed a few free-kick and penalty opportunities which in hindsight Ward-Prowse would likely have more positive outcomes. The amazing thing was JWP was by far and away our best midfielder in the Romania warm up game. He then took a 1/3 fit Henderson and a 17 year old Bellingham coz.... Southampton I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, Steero113 said: The amazing thing was JWP was by far and away our best midfielder in the Romania warm up game. He then took a 1/3 fit Henderson and a 17 year old Bellingham coz.... Southampton I suppose. The link up between JWP and ol'shin splints got me salivating at the prospect of them playing together. Toni Braxton #unbreak my heart..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 3 hours ago, ozvillafan said: Losing our former captain and signing JWP for 50 million smells a lot like what Liverpool paid for Carrol when they sold Torres: Too much. It smells a little different to me: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Sulberto21 said: 50m?? That sounds like Kamada and Kamara. But not my money so I don't care. @Laughable Chimp re the stats around JWP does he not play deeper? Does he have good 'key passes' stats? All his key passes stats are pretty good. Its just most of them and the higher quality ones come from dead ball situation. I don't really know if he plays deep, but according to some Southampton fans I've seen talk about him on reddit, I'd say yes. The stats indicate more of a deep lying midfielder than a box to box midfielder hence my earlier claim that he is most similar with Douglas Luiz. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lerner's Driver Posted August 19, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 19, 2021 27 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Is this Trey ITK Take a guess. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 This hasn’t gone away (I’ve seen what the club has said) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 7 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: An open question to all V’talkers: Free kicks aside (not discounting their value to a team) is he better in open play than McGinn, Nakamba and Luiz? I think £50m would be on a par with, or very near to the sort of fee we would expect someone to bid for John and Douglas. JWP is a different type of player, one does not need to be better than the other one (although that may be the case), they are signed to complement one another. Those three could even all start games, if we reconsidered how we set up. One thing for sure is that signing JWP would give us options and something we don't have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted August 19, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 19, 2021 18 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said: Take a guess. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said: I think I've made my feelings clear on this one but to reiterate, no. Not significantly better. Once you take out all his dead ball ability, his stats are not much better than our current options. Worse dribbler than Luiz Worse open play shot creator and goal scorer than Mcginn Worse defender than Nakamba His passing stats are deceptive simply because of the amount of time he is on the ball. His passing accuracy is actually rather poor. I don't think there's any more damning statistic than the fact that out of 8 goals and 7 assists last season, only a single goal came from open play and all of his assists came from corners and free kicks. It's not necessarily a quirk of last season too. 4 open play assists in the last combined 4 seasons. That amounts to 1 open play assist per season. The goal scoring isn't much better either. 8 open play goals in the same time period although only 2 goals if you look at the more recent 2 seasons. Edit: Technically, he may have 3 goals from open play in the past 2 seasons. It depends on whether you consider scoring a goal from a rebound from a failed penalty as "open-play". It doesn't seem particularly astute analysis to take a few random specific statistics and say he's worse than this individual or that individual in our team, whilst ignoring things like volume and all around ability. Like, how much "worse" of a dribbler is he than Luiz and what the hell does that even mean in context? Is that what we would be looking to him for? Is he a "worse" shot creator than McGinn because of the position he takes up on the pitch? How about the fact the team he plays for were absolutely shit for months, does that not count for something? You say he's a "worse" defender than Nakamba, well that's an understandable conclusion if you're just looking at number on a bit of paper, Nakamba's defensive metrics are unreal. But we know he's just not a very good footballer, and his positioning is at times woefully short of the standard we require. You need to take a more rounded view. In short, you can't just make a judgement on a player by looking at the statistics alone. They might give you and idea of what they can bring, but you need the context as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 53 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Is this Trey ITK No, it's Trey IDK 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 18 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Off topic (but still relevant), is that Johnny Ball from 'Think of a number' fame? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted August 19, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said: Off topic (but still relevant), is that Johnny Ball from 'Think of a number' fame? Could well be, good spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Follyfoot said: Is this Trey ITK He's no The Real ITK! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 I honestly don’t think we have the money for JWP…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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