Euro 2020 : Group D (England, Scotland, Croatia, Czechia)

[rodders0223]

16 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

I do

The European Cup final players were rested, we have a few players who are injured and then it meant that he could reduce the risk of kane getting an injury by giving Ollie 10 mins in a meaningless friendly 

I think if he could have got away with it he wouldn't have played these 2 friendlies 

Someone else said in the Spain thread they have the rona so might have to field their u21s in their last friendly, why not just scrap the game... 

JWP played more minutes than Henderson a man whose played no football recently.

Sterling likewise may have started the CL final but played nowhere near enough football the past 6 months, when was the last time Sancho played?I think Lingard played more minutes than both of them, along with Saka.

 

 

[Phil Silvers]

Is everyone OK?

Heard people were furious on here, or is it the same old Villa fans on a Villa forum posting their opinions about the clearly incompetent manager not having a clue what he is doing.

Southgate will try to not lose games, he will be ultra conservative as usual and will get through the group stage inspite of himself, then might fluke past one of the good teams but I doubt it.

 

[delboy54]

What is it with England managers picking either out of form players, players carrying injuries or playing players out of their normal position, or a combination of all three?

For what its worth I think Scotland is going to be a toughest game of the group....a certain Scottish Villa player to score their winner? 

Del

[Zatman]

8 minutes ago, delboy54 said:

What is it with England managers picking either out of form players, players carrying injuries or playing players out of their normal position, or a combination of all three?

For what its worth I think Scotland is going to be a toughest game of the group....a certain Scottish Villa player to score their winner? 

Del

Did they recall Hutton?

[PaulC]

Its too negative on here. Friendlies mean nothing. We'll easily win the group. The first big test will be the last 16 game. 

[villa4europe]

2 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Its too negative on here. Friendlies mean nothing. We'll easily win the group. The first big test will be the last 16 game. 

History seemingly means nothing too

Seen this happen too many times with England I'm afraid, they should easily win the group, they won't 

Make everything hard work thanks to the manager **** about with tactics and players to suit playing his favourites rather than just picking his best in form 11 in a formation that everyone knows and plays to the strengths of the team 

Its always been the same with England, I would openly admit that I get very little joy from watching England, villa I can control it, England I can't 

[jacketspuds]

Danny Murphy wouldn’t play Grealish because Foden has to start and if Grealish does too there will be no pace in the front 3.

I thought Foden was really quick. He’s just not a headless chicken like Rashford or Sterling.

Grealish isn’t exactly slow either.

[rodders0223]

12 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

Danny Murphy wouldn’t play Grealish because Foden has to start and if Grealish does too there will be no pace in the front 3.

I thought Foden was really quick. He’s just not a headless chicken like Rashford or Sterling.

Grealish isn’t exactly slow either.

Grealish is rapid and so is Foden but you know - you need some of those "beasts" in there.

Shameful comment.

[Davkaus]

9 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Grealish is rapid and so is Foden but you know - you need some of those "beasts" in there.

Shameful comment.

Are you imagining the justification for something someone said, then getting angry about the thing you imagined?

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, rodders0223 said:

JWP played more minutes than Henderson a man whose played no football recently.

Sterling likewise may have started the CL final but played nowhere near enough football the past 6 months, when was the last time Sancho played?I think Lingard played more minutes than both of them, along with Saka.

Well Henderson clearly isn't fit enough, which is a separate and I think fairer criticism.

The point with regard to City and Chelsea players is that they felt they needed a break, rightly or wrongly. And we can say 'well they should have played rather than people who aren't going to the tournament'. But then if they'd played, and got injured or fatigued, people would be doing 'well why were they playing in meaningless friendlies rather than being rested straight after a big game like the Champions League final'.

Let's not pretend here that if he hadn't taken the exact opposite position, he wouldn't just be getting the opposite pelters.

[PaulC]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

History seemingly means nothing too

Seen this happen too many times with England I'm afraid, they should easily win the group, they won't 

Make everything hard work thanks to the manager **** about with tactics and players to suit playing his favourites rather than just picking his best in form 11 in a formation that everyone knows and plays to the strengths of the team 

Its always been the same with England, I would openly admit that I get very little joy from watching England, villa I can control it, England I can't 

History doesn't mean a lot. Southgate is torn between attack and defence. He would like to go back 4 but doesn't trust the defence. He knows how good Grealish is but the problem he has is if he picks Kane, Foden and Grealish then all are players that like the ball to their feet and who is going to run beyond. Who will get in the box! If history does tell us anything then its that its not always the best 11 players that win tournaments. Ramsey made the choice to drop Greaves in the world cup. That would be akin to Southgate dropping Kane for Calvert-lewin. 

With regard to Henderson. He's been there and done it in champions league finals. Theres not much experience with Kalvin-phillips and Rice and Henderson is a leader and with a 26 man squad I can understand him going. 

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, PaulC said:

History doesn't mean a lot. Southgate is torn between attack and defence. He would like to go back 4 but doesn't trust the defence. He knows how good Grealish is but the problem he has is if he picks Kane, Foden and Grealish then all are players that like the ball to their feet and who is going to run beyond. Who will get in the box! If history does tell us anything then its that its not always the best 11 players that win tournaments. Ramsey made the choice to drop Greaves in the world cup. That would be akin to Southgate dropping Kane for Calvert-lewin. 

With regard to Henderson. He's been there and done it in champions league finals. Theres not much experience with Kalvin-phillips and Rice and Henderson is a leader and with a 26 man squad I can understand him going. 

History doesn't mean a lot yet Henderson is there because Liverpool won Champions League 2 years ago? 

As for his leadership it was a disgrace yesterday, killed Calvert Lewin confidence before the tournament for his ego

[blandy]

3 hours ago, Genie said:

One might change a game IF used. One wouldn’t and is backup for the backup.

It’s on Gareth not to select a dead ball specialist when he has some of the best free kick winners in the game in his squad.

It’s moot of course as he decided he needs another defender, as cover for the injured defender hogging a spot.

Gareth has made a right mess of this squad imo.

I don't really get the general dislike (and worse) of Gareth Southgate in this thread. I get some of the thoughts around being a defensive manager, and that people would prefer a more front foot type of manager, but beyond that I think he's doing a decent job. He's the best (IMO) we've had for a good while. He's got the team wanting to play for England, for a start. The cliques are gone. He selects young players. He doesn't just pick from the Sky 6 teams. The results have been decent. The quality of football has been decent.

These last 2 warm up games have come at the end of a compressed season, one week from the Champions League final, so players from those 2 clubs not playing in them (or at least not starting games) makes sense - they needed a bit of a rest.

And even the stuff with Jack - he himself (Jack) has talked about Southgate wanting more end product, and to be fair, that's what he's gone and done.

I don't think England will win it, and like loads of others would have Kane and then 3 behind - Grealish, Mount and Foden, and Rice and Bellingham in front of the defence against the better sides, and a 4-4-1- with just one defensive midfielder if we need to get goals or face a team that's gonna sit back and park the bus. There's so many really good attacking players that trying to cram in less good defensive players for the sake of solidity would be counter productive.

[Zatman]

3 minutes ago, blandy said:

I don't really get the general dislike (and worse) of Gareth Southgate in this thread. I get some of the thoughts around being a defensive manager, and that people would prefer a more front foot type of manager, but beyond that I think he's doing a decent job. He's the best (IMO) we've had for a good while. He's got the team wanting to play for England, for a start. The cliques are gone. He selects young players. He doesn't just pick from the Sky 6 teams. The results have been decent. The quality of football has been decent.

These last 2 warm up games have come at the end of a compressed season, one week from the Champions League final, so players from those 2 clubs not playing in them (or at least not starting games) makes sense - they needed a bit of a rest.

And even the stuff with Jack - he himself (Jack) has talked about Southgate wanting more end product, and to be fair, that's what he's gone and done.

I don't think England will win it, and like loads of others would have Kane and then 3 behind - Grealish, Mount and Foden, and Rice and Bellingham in front of the defence against the better sides, and a 4-4-1- with just one defensive midfielder if we need to get goals or face a team that's gonna sit back and park the bus. There's so many really good attacking players that trying to cram in less good defensive players for the sake of solidity would be counter productive.

I think it starts from when he left Villa the dislike has continued 

[darrenm]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

I don't really get the general dislike (and worse) of Gareth Southgate in this thread. I get some of the thoughts around being a defensive manager, and that people would prefer a more front foot type of manager, but beyond that I think he's doing a decent job. He's the best (IMO) we've had for a good while. He's got the team wanting to play for England, for a start. The cliques are gone. He selects young players. He doesn't just pick from the Sky 6 teams. The results have been decent. The quality of football has been decent.

These last 2 warm up games have come at the end of a compressed season, one week from the Champions League final, so players from those 2 clubs not playing in them (or at least not starting games) makes sense - they needed a bit of a rest.

And even the stuff with Jack - he himself (Jack) has talked about Southgate wanting more end product, and to be fair, that's what he's gone and done.

I don't think England will win it, and like loads of others would have Kane and then 3 behind - Grealish, Mount and Foden, and Rice and Bellingham in front of the defence against the better sides, and a 4-4-1- with just one defensive midfielder if we need to get goals or face a team that's gonna sit back and park the bus. There's so many really good attacking players that trying to cram in less good defensive players for the sake of solidity would be counter productive.

re the dislike of Southgate. I think it's mainly just that he disrespected our boy. He had to make some bizarre contorted reasoning to justify leaving him out before and football fans aren't quick to forgive an insult. 

IMO Southgate has actually made Jack go backwards a little bit when playing for England. He's made him too conservative. The freedom he has for Villa where he pretty much has the keys to Villa Park he's not allowed for England, and England are the worse for it.

I fully agree with your team. I wasn't sold on Bellingham but he's the best CDM England have got right now. It seems so obvious to me that the best front 6 are Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Mount, Grealish, Kane. I'm not sure Southgate necessarily needs to worry about if they work together - you put them on the pitch and they'll deliver.

[Genie]

18 minutes ago, blandy said:

He's the best (IMO) we've had for a good while

Debatable 

19 minutes ago, blandy said:

He's got the team wanting to play for England,

I don’t think it’s any different to any other time. They turn up, I’m not sure how we can measure how much they want to play for England, or if it’s more now than before?

20 minutes ago, blandy said:

The cliques are gone

Also very difficult to know, we only generally hear about them after the event when it’s all gone wrong. I’ve read in a few places where it seems they don’t like passing go Jack. Liverpool captain Henderson promptly took the ball off Everton striker yesterday to miss the penalty.

20 minutes ago, blandy said:

He selects young players.

True, I think they are the best we have though. I don’t think top, older players have been left out.

21 minutes ago, blandy said:

He doesn't just pick from the Sky 6 teams

True, but previous managers do that too. He’s picked 2 injured players only because of the clubs they are from.

22 minutes ago, blandy said:

The results have been decent. The quality of football has been decent.

The quality of football has been very poor IMO. 

[PaulC]

33 minutes ago, Zatman said:

History doesn't mean a lot yet Henderson is there because Liverpool won Champions League 2 years ago? 

As for his leadership it was a disgrace yesterday, killed Calvert Lewin confidence before the tournament for his ego

You're changing the context there. History doesn't mean a lot in tournaments when you have completely different players and managers. 

[PaulC]

33 minutes ago, blandy said:

I don't really get the general dislike (and worse) of Gareth Southgate in this thread. I get some of the thoughts around being a defensive manager, and that people would prefer a more front foot type of manager, but beyond that I think he's doing a decent job. He's the best (IMO) we've had for a good while. He's got the team wanting to play for England, for a start. The cliques are gone. He selects young players. He doesn't just pick from the Sky 6 teams. The results have been decent. The quality of football has been decent.

These last 2 warm up games have come at the end of a compressed season, one week from the Champions League final, so players from those 2 clubs not playing in them (or at least not starting games) makes sense - they needed a bit of a rest.

And even the stuff with Jack - he himself (Jack) has talked about Southgate wanting more end product, and to be fair, that's what he's gone and done.

I don't think England will win it, and like loads of others would have Kane and then 3 behind - Grealish, Mount and Foden, and Rice and Bellingham in front of the defence against the better sides, and a 4-4-1- with just one defensive midfielder if we need to get goals or face a team that's gonna sit back and park the bus. There's so many really good attacking players that trying to cram in less good defensive players for the sake of solidity would be counter productive.

I don't agree with all the negative stuff about Southgate before the tournament has even started.  If we fail to perform in the tournament and go out then yes he should get a lot of stick. 

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, PaulC said:

You're changing the context there. History doesn't mean a lot in tournaments when you have completely different players and managers. 

but you also said Italy are not to be feared because they didnt make the last tournament even though its nearly a new squad and manager

[PaulC]

Just now, Zatman said:

but you also said Italy are not to be feared because they didnt make the last tournament even though its nearly a new squad and manager

Yes you have a point but can we be completely honest. You would love it if England failed and Italy won it?  I support England and want us to win the tournament no matter who is in the team. It would be icing on the cake If Grealish played a big part in it but its not essential.