MotoMkali Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Thug said: That’s the thing, Ollie’s finishing last season wasn’t actually great. He is one hell of a player, but shooting/finishing is not his strength. Pukki is getting abuse here, but actually his stats from that season in terms of shooting were only marginally worse than Ollies from last season. AEG gets dogs abuse on here for having ‘woeful’ shooting, so I’ve added him here for comparison. (Obv Ollie is a much better player before I get accused of all sorts of crap) Np:g-xG the number of goals scored take away the number of goals that the shots that you took you would be expected to score from @sir_gary_cahill fbref.com will give you all the stats you need for free. Yeah but it wouldn't look so bad without those 2 completely 50/50 offsides not being given. If they counted that would be 16 npXG compared to 15 goals. Plus he got really unlcuky with the number of times he hit the woodwork. 1 inch here or there and that's another 7 goals you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Thug said: That’s the thing, Ollie’s finishing last season wasn’t actually great. He is one hell of a player, but shooting/finishing is not his strength. Pukki is getting abuse here, but actually his stats from that season in terms of shooting were only marginally worse than Ollies from last season. AEG gets dogs abuse on here for having ‘woeful’ shooting, so I’ve added him here for comparison. (Obv Ollie is a much better player before I get accused of all sorts of crap) Np:g-xG the number of goals scored take away the number of goals that the shots that you took you would be expected to score from @sir_gary_cahill fbref.com will give you all the stats you need for free. Watkins hit the woodwork 7 times last season and had 3 goals chalked off for armpit hair being offside. I want more data. The eye test tells me he is an adequate finisher. Edited June 24, 2021 by dont_do_it_doug. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 minute ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Watkins hit the woodwork 7 times last season and had 3 goals chalked off for armpit hair being offside. I want more data. Agree, while stats a cool and give us so much to help make the right decisions, they do not always tell the whole story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 There's no doubt in my mind Watkins will be working hard on his finishing this summer. I just hope once Buendia's back they have enough time together in training to start building an understanding with those through balls he always played to Pukki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 29 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: There's no doubt in my mind Watkins will be working hard on his finishing this summer. I just hope once Buendia's back they have enough time together in training to start building an understanding with those through balls he always played to Pukki. If you watch the England training video's from the pre-cutdown squad Ollie's finishing is better than DCL's and Rashford's from the footage we got. He's gonna be a 20 goal striker next season I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 31 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: There's no doubt in my mind Watkins will be working hard on his finishing this summer. I just hope once Buendia's back they have enough time together in training to start building an understanding with those through balls he always played to Pukki. As mentioned before i think Watkins does need to work on his finishing, but as part of that if he could develop the little jinks and lifts as part of his finishing it would make a huge difference, For example, rather than just booting it, having the ability to jink over a keeper, or lift it over an on-rushing keeper etc, like a lot of top finishers do, if he could do that with composure i think it would take him to the next level. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Steero113 said: If you watch the England training video's from the pre-cutdown squad Ollie's finishing is better than DCL's and Rashford's from the footage we got. He's gonna be a 20 goal striker next season I think. He's not a bad finisher at all and his all round game is great, but if he was a bit more clinical he would be an unbelievable player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 3 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Watkins hit the woodwork 7 times last season and had 3 goals chalked off for armpit hair being offside. I want more data. The eye test tells me he is an adequate finisher. Didn’t say he wasn’t an adequate finisher, and nor do the stats. The stats support the eye test. This guy is a phenomenal footballer. His involvement stats are unreal. Carries, dribbles, touches, receiving, headers, progressive passes etc. His finishing/shooting stats are merely adequate. He is no Kane or Ings. If he was, he’d be a £200m centre forward. But I wouldn’t swap him for Ings, and I would think long and hard about swapping him for Kane, because of the other attributes he brings to the table. We’re going off topic, but happy to continue discussion in the Watkins thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Thug said: Didn’t say he wasn’t an adequate finisher, and nor do the stats. The stats support the eye test. This guy is a phenomenal footballer. His involvement stats are unreal. Carries, dribbles, touches, receiving, headers, progressive passes etc. His finishing/shooting stats are merely adequate. He is no Kane or Ings. If he was, he’d be a £200m centre forward. But I wouldn’t swap him for Ings, and I would think long and hard about swapping him for Kane, because of the other attributes he brings to the table. We’re going off topic, but happy to continue discussion in the Watkins thread. Just providing balance to the notion that he underperformed with his finishing last season. He did, but he also quite easily could have overperformed. I don’t think there’s anything particularly wrong with him technically, needs to keep doing what he’s doing and the results will come. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted June 24, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted June 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Steero113 said: If you watch the England training video's from the pre-cutdown squad Ollie's finishing is better than DCL's and Rashford's from the footage we got. He's gonna be a 20 goal striker next season I think. Just hope he don’t have a big injury next season or we’re mega hyper boned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 5 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said: There's no doubt in my mind Watkins will be working hard on his finishing this summer. I just hope once Buendia's back they have enough time together in training to start building an understanding with those through balls he always played to Pukki. Watkins got Buendia and Grealish around him. 2 of the most chance creating players in Europe. No excuses for not hitting at least 15 goals this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Ollie hits the post a lot, but I don't think I've seen him do one of those timid rolls of the ball into the keeper's arms that Pukki seems to be fond of or skew his shots terribly wide. There's definitely room for improvement though, but I'd be reasonably confident seeing him through on goal as is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, MotoMkali said: Yeah but it wouldn't look so bad without those 2 completely 50/50 offsides not being given. If they counted that would be 16 npXG compared to 15 goals. Plus he got really unlcuky with the number of times he hit the woodwork. 1 inch here or there and that's another 7 goals you know. Being offside is not included in the xG metric because you can’t be expected to score if you were offside. You might have been expected to be on-side, but that’s a different metric altogether. edit: I see what you meant. Yes. Edited June 24, 2021 by Thug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 5 hours ago, HKP90 said: Just hope he don’t have a big injury next season or we’re mega hyper boned You can say that about so many players at so many clubs. Manure probably out of top 6 with no Fernandes diving for penalties etc. It's doom and gloom thinking about things that haven't happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 5 hours ago, Keyblade said: Ollie hits the post a lot, but I don't think I've seen him do one of those timid rolls of the ball into the keeper's arms that Pukki seems to be fond of or skew his shots terribly wide. There's definitely room for improvement though, but I'd be reasonably confident seeing him through on goal as is. Just checked and you are correct. Hit post 7 times. 2nd most behind Kane with 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 5 hours ago, Keyblade said: Ollie hits the post a lot, but I don't think I've seen him do one of those timid rolls of the ball into the keeper's arms that Pukki seems to be fond of or skew his shots terribly wide. There's definitely room for improvement though, but I'd be reasonably confident seeing him through on goal as is. Agree, I think 9/10 Ollie does the right thing, or at least what we're always told is the right thing, low and hard across the keeper etc heading the ball back across goal stuff like that Its very rare that he simply smashes the ball goal wards or thrashes at anything I don't think you can coach that at this stage of his career, he can get better and luckier but it's not like they're trying to coach him composure or basic technique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Nothing wrong with Ollie’s finishing here, crisp & precise: I think he could come improve on one on ones with the keeper though... I expect him to keep progressing and developing. What a player we have on our hands, well done Deano The reliable, quality striker we’ve been waiting for, but he also offers much more than the average CF… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted June 25, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted June 25, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Kiwivillan said: You can say that about so many players at so many clubs. Manure probably out of top 6 with no Fernandes diving for penalties etc. It's doom and gloom thinking about things that haven't happened No, it’s called preparation planning. If you are over reliant on one player you are vulnerable. That’s what squad development is about. We’re putting a lot of faith in Wesley and Davis as backup. I’m sure our coaches know what’s what and I trust them to know what we need. It does feel like we would be very reliant on strikers that are relatively unproven if Watto goes down. If it happens early, it might scupper the season. Edited June 25, 2021 by HKP90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted June 25, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted June 25, 2021 9 hours ago, Jas10 said: Nothing wrong with Ollie’s finishing here, crisp & precise: I think he could come improve on one on ones with the keeper though... I expect him to keep progressing and developing. What a player we have on our hands, well done Deano The reliable, quality striker we’ve been waiting for, but he also offers much more than the average CF… 100%. That nutmeg of the arsenal goalkeeper is a quality finish. Tracking back and wing play for the liverpool goal. Just excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Welcome Ollie Buendia!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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