VT’s Music Chat

[chrisp65]

9 hours ago, maqroll said:

Janis Joplin was a terrible singer. 

 

53 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

It's a shame, because I want to like her. 

 

48 minutes ago, blandy said:

Yeah. The only one that isn’t, and just barely isn’t, is that Mercedes Benz song. 

 

I hacked three accounts to set up a conversation with myself.

[Rugeley Villa]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

I'm with you there. Everything Dylan haters say about his voice, I feel about Janis. It's a shame, because I want to like her. But it's like the proverbial fingernails down a blackboard. 

I sit on the fence with her. There’s stuff I like and she’s a full on rock n roller , but some songs her voice really grates .

[mjmooney]

17 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Not my opinion, but my wife’s. John Bonham ruins Led Zeppelin 

Your wife is wrong. 

[Rugeley Villa]

13 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Your wife is wrong. 

Yes she is  but I find it Interesting how others hear music. She likes all genres and in terms of 70s heavy rock the big three were Zeppelin Sabbath and Deep Purple .She likes Sabbath and Deep Purple and Zeppelin a distant third all because of Bonham. She says the drums overpower the rest the music .

Edited July 3, 2021 by Rugeley Villa

[mjmooney]

1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Yes she is  but I find it Interesting how others hear music. She likes all genres and in terms of 70s heavy rock the big three were Zeppelin Sabbath and Deep Purple .She likes Sabbath and Deep Purple and Zeppelin a distant third all because of Bonham. She says the drums overpower the rest the music .

Yes, those were certainly the big three when I Wor A Lad, not much to choose between them at the time. Funny how reputations age - critical opinion now seems to heavily favour Sabbath, Zeppelin get a sort of grudging acknowledgement, and Purple are an almost-forgotten joke. 

Personally, I think LZ were, and remain, head and shoulders above the other two. 

[Ginko]

24 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

She likes Sabbath and Deep Purple and Zeppelin a distant third all because of Bonham. She says the drums overpower the rest the music .

As in the drums are too loud in the mix? Personally I’m a fan of the drums being more prominent, and Zeppelin are a great example. As soon as ‘When the Levee Breaks’ kicks off I get shivers down my spine.

Has your missus ever heard ‘Good Times Bad Times’? I don’t know how anyone could listen to that and not think Bonham was an incredible drummer.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Ginko

[Rugeley Villa]

37 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Yes, those were certainly the big three when I Wor A Lad, not much to choose between them at the time. Funny how reputations age - critical opinion now seems to heavily favour Sabbath, Zeppelin get a sort of grudging acknowledgement, and Purple are an almost-forgotten joke. 

Personally, I think LZ were, and remain, head and shoulders above the other two. 

Sabbath are as big now as they have ever been. I still think the younger generations dig Zeppelin, but you’re bang on about Deep Purple, they are criminally forgotten. The organ sound that was a big part of their music could be a reason for that . Deep Purple were and are very big in mainland Europe though. I think Zeppelin were the ultimate heavy rock band purely because of their diversity. 

 

 

[Rugeley Villa]

24 minutes ago, Ginko said:

As in the drums are too loud in the mix? Personally I’m a fan of the drums being more prominent, and Zeppelin are a great example. As soon as ‘When the Levee Breaks’ kicks off I get shivers down my spine.

Has your missus ever heard ‘Good Times Bad Times’? I don’t know how anyone could listen to that and not think Bonham was an incredible drummer.

Yes, I’d say that’s the reason. Jimmy Page deliberately recorded Bonham like that. I don’t think she thinks he’s not a good drummer, it’s just she doesn’t like his sound. She’s heard a lot of Zeppelin. I’ve played her stuff that I thought she’d love , like some of the acoustic stuff, but she’s just not that into them. I listened to an isolated drum track of bonhams the other week which was unreal. Fool In The Rain off their last album .

[maqroll]

1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Yes she is  but I find it Interesting how others hear music. She likes all genres and in terms of 70s heavy rock the big three were Zeppelin Sabbath and Deep Purple .She likes Sabbath and Deep Purple and Zeppelin a distant third all because of Bonham. She says the drums overpower the rest the music .

I understand why she thinks that. I half agree with her. He could be pretty ham fisted. They also seemed to record the drums in a way that brought it more forward in the mix as well. Listen to D'yer Maker. The drums sort of overpower the tune. It works on songs like When the Levee Breaks, but not so much on others, IMO.

[mjmooney]

While we're on the subject of that era of heavy rock bands, this may be an unpopular opinion (it's certainly counter to received wisdom)... those guitar/bass/drums outfits - Cream, The Who, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Free, Taste/Rory Gallagher, etc. all bulit their reputation on their live shows, and their live albums are always in the critics' 'best of' lists. But in every case, I prefer their studio work, where they used additional instruments and more sophisticated arrangements. When they took them onstage, they substituted power, speed and volume for subtlety and colour. While this was/is always fun if you're at a gig and caught up in the adrenaline rush, it wears pretty thin pretty quickly on record. Cream and (especially) Zeppelin made really varied and sophisticated studio recordings, that were pretty much impossible to transfer to the stage without losing the good bits. 

[Rugeley Villa]

2 hours ago, mjmooney said:

While we're on the subject of that era of heavy rock bands, this may be an unpopular opinion (it's certainly counter to received wisdom)... those guitar/bass/drums outfits - Cream, The Who, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Free, Taste/Rory Gallagher, etc. all bulit their reputation on their live shows, and their live albums are always in the critics' 'best of' lists. But in every case, I prefer their studio work, where they used additional instruments and more sophisticated arrangements. When they took them onstage, they substituted power, speed and volume for subtlety and colour. While this was/is always fun if you're at a gig and caught up in the adrenaline rush, it wears pretty thin pretty quickly on record. Cream and (especially) Zeppelin made really varied and sophisticated studio recordings, that were pretty much impossible to transfer to the stage without losing the good bits. 

Now I’m a live album kind of person. Whatever bands I was into growing up I’d search out their live album. I get where you are coming from though. Deep Purple and The Who and maybe Led Zeppelin have legendary status as a live band, although the latter failed to deliver a true iconic live album like the other two. Plus Zeppelin were very hit and miss as the 70s went on due to Drugs. Black Sabbath refuse to release their iconic live shows so I’m left with bootlegs. A lot of those bands from back then used to drag out 5 minute songs to 20 minutes etc which could go either way. Jimmy Page as you mention did a lot of guitar layering in the studio which made it hard to replicate live, although he still had a go. 

[Rugeley Villa]

3 hours ago, maqroll said:

I understand why she thinks that. I half agree with her. He could be pretty ham fisted. They also seemed to record the drums in a way that brought it more forward in the mix as well. Listen to D'yer Maker. The drums sort of overpower the tune. It works on songs like When the Levee Breaks, but not so much on others, IMO.

I know Keith Richards thought Bonham was too heavy handed and I’ve read similar things from other people. 

[andym]

4 hours ago, Ginko said:

As in the drums are too loud in the mix? Personally I’m a fan of the drums being more prominent, and Zeppelin are a great example. As soon as ‘When the Levee Breaks’ kicks off I get shivers down my spine.

Has your missus ever heard ‘Good Times Bad Times’? I don’t know how anyone could listen to that and not think Bonham was an incredible drummer.

Even with Bonham's squeaky bass drum pedal? 

Out of Sabbath, Deep Purple and Zeppelin, the latter are probably my least favourite.

However, one thing i like about all of them; they are classed as hard rock/heavy metal, but if you listen to them, the drums in particular, and they all have a bit of groove and swing. Bill Ward in particular had a lot of jazz like qualities to his playing. I guess they all grew up on jazz and blues, so it's not a surprise.

Compare it to modern metal, and the drums are often all quantized to be absolutely perfectly on the beat (and the sounds are triggered samples), but that means it ends up sounding like a shit drum machine.

[maqroll]

36 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

I know Keith Richards thought Bonham was too heavy handed and I’ve read similar things from other people. 

Nobody is good enough for Keith Richards! Not even Chuck Berry, FFS. 

[Ginko]

35 minutes ago, andym said:

Even with Bonham's squeaky bass drum pedal? 

Out of Sabbath, Deep Purple and Zeppelin, the latter are probably my least favourite.

However, one thing i like about all of them; they are classed as hard rock/heavy metal, but if you listen to them, the drums in particular, and they all have a bit of groove and swing. Bill Ward in particular had a lot of jazz like qualities to his playing. I guess they all grew up on jazz and blues, so it's not a surprise.

Compare it to modern metal, and the drums are often all quantized to be absolutely perfectly on the beat (and the sounds are triggered samples), but that means it ends up sounding like a shit drum machine.

Should have known you’d be hanging round here 

I’ll bow to your greater technical knowledge, but I always preferred Zeppelin over Deep Purple and Sabbath.

[Rugeley Villa]

23 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Nobody is good enough for Keith Richards! Not even Chuck Berry, FFS. 

Yes most of what he says is utter crap. Runs everyone down apart from AC/DC 

[Rugeley Villa]

43 minutes ago, andym said:

Even with Bonham's squeaky bass drum pedal? 

Out of Sabbath, Deep Purple and Zeppelin, the latter are probably my least favourite.

However, one thing i like about all of them; they are classed as hard rock/heavy metal, but if you listen to them, the drums in particular, and they all have a bit of groove and swing. Bill Ward in particular had a lot of jazz like qualities to his playing. I guess they all grew up on jazz and blues, so it's not a surprise.

Compare it to modern metal, and the drums are often all quantized to be absolutely perfectly on the beat (and the sounds are triggered samples), but that means it ends up sounding like a shit drum machine.

The great thing about all 3 bands is that they are different from each other. They all have their own sound and image as bands. Vocalists were different from one another. Page, Iommi and Blackmore all had their own styles, same with drums and bass. Bill Ward could swing and his style is my favourite of the 3 drummers. There’s a lot of jazz influences playing in black sabbath that people miss. Nowadays heavy rock/metal has lost that diversity that bands back in the 60s 70s had .

[The Fun Factory]

1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said:

I know Keith Richards thought Bonham was too heavy handed and I’ve read similar things from other people. 

The Stones were always bitchy about Zeppelin as they knocked them off the world biggest band perch by the mid 70s.

[Designer1]

4 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Nowadays heavy rock/metal has lost that diversity that bands back in the 60s 70s had .

Nah, not really Ruge. Maybe the more 'mainstream' ones, but there's a huge amount of diversity in the scene in general.

[Rugeley Villa]

Just now, Designer1 said:

Nah, not really Ruge. Maybe the more 'mainstream' ones, but there's a huge amount of diversity in the scene in general.

Well you’re probably better positioned than I am regarding that matter. Just seems to be the older bands used to more elements of music and surprised you more .