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Social media and villa players


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5 hours ago, nick76 said:

I’m all for free speech but hate speech has no place.

Why should a player not have a social media account?  They can make a lot of money from certain social media accounts.  In your answer to it the victim is impacted whereas the offender isn’t impacted which surely the wrong way around?!

One persons hate speech is another’s free speech. Offence is subjective and I don’t want any limits on it outside of immediate incitement of violent.

I also don’t want some arbitrary company policing what can and can’t be said. If someone can’t deal with other peoples opinions then it is sensible to remove themselves from that situation.

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3 minutes ago, paul514 said:

One persons hate speech is another’s free speech. Offence is subjective and I don’t want any limits on it outside of immediate incitement of violent.

I also don’t want some arbitrary company policing what can and can’t be said. If someone can’t deal with other peoples opinions then it is sensible to remove themselves from that situation.

So why are you on this website? The moderators would kick you off if you did hate speech or offensive speech.  You are limited on what you can say on here but you still post, why? when it’s not even a company but just certain Villa fans.

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Just now, nick76 said:

So why are you on this website? The moderators would kick you off if you did hate speech or offensive speech.  You are limited on what you can say on here but you still post, why? when it’s not even a company but just certain Villa fans.

Because there isn't an alternative for me, also I say what I want to on here and if that is deemed not ok at some point I will be removed.

Like I said offence and hate is subjective which is why speech can’t be limited justly.

if it were up to me this would apply in all places where speech and writing happens.

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Just now, paul514 said:

Because there isn't an alternative for me, also I say what I want to on here and if that is deemed not ok at some point I will be removed.

Like I said offence and hate is subjective which is why speech can’t be limited justly.

if it were up to me this would apply in all places where speech and writing happens.

There are other Villa fan sites just as there other social media platforms to Twitter, so I don’t understand your point.  So if Twitter placed rules on some level of hate speech then there are more people that will want to conform to those rules to stay on that platform given it exposure to the world.

Of course offence and hate is subjective but there are basic laws that prevent certain speech in 1st world countries that are limited by law.

Honestly re your last line I’m glad it’s not up to you then.  I don’t want to live in a world where some extreme or hateful language or discussion is acceptable on major platforms from racism to homophobia to sexism to anything worse we can all think of.  I don’t want 1984 scenario but some boundaries need to be in place.

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29 minutes ago, nick76 said:

There are other Villa fan sites just as there other social media platforms to Twitter, so I don’t understand your point.  So if Twitter placed rules on some level of hate speech then there are more people that will want to conform to those rules to stay on that platform given it exposure to the world.

Of course offence and hate is subjective but there are basic laws that prevent certain speech in 1st world countries that are limited by law.

Honestly re your last line I’m glad it’s not up to you then.  I don’t want to live in a world where some extreme or hateful language or discussion is acceptable on major platforms from racism to homophobia to sexism to anything worse we can all think of.  I don’t want 1984 scenario but some boundaries need to be in place.

That place where those freedoms exist are in the USA, they just don’t currently extend to private platforms.

As for use somewhere else, those platforms have been busy destroying them like Parlour for example.

You don’t want 1984 but advocate for it.

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9 minutes ago, paul514 said:

That place where those freedoms exist are in the USA, they just don’t currently extend to private platforms.

As for use somewhere else, those platforms have been busy destroying them like Parlour for example.

You don’t want 1984 but advocate for it.

I advocate for closer to full free speech being allowed with some very basic decency boundaries. Do you think my examples in my last comment were unreasonable decency boundaries? If you think they were unreasonable then we’ll never agree.

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Something that's still growing at great pace is people posing as fans of other teams to send this abuse as well.

They're not hard to spot either. Literally don't post anything until they get some negativity to feed from and go piling in.

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  • VT Supporter

Might just be because I only really follow the Villa, but we do seem to have had more than our fair share of these types of stories. Anyone who's been to a game at VP knows that we sadly do have some toxic morons in our support.

Some kind of united message to the players from supporters, letting them know we are proud of their efforts this year and that the social media trolls are very much in the minority would be an excellent gesture

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31 minutes ago, icouldtelltheworld said:

Might just be because I only really follow the Villa, but we do seem to have had more than our fair share of these types of stories. Anyone who's been to a game at VP knows that we sadly do have some toxic morons in our support.

Some kind of united message to the players from supporters, letting them know we are proud of their efforts this year and that the social media trolls are very much in the minority would be an excellent gesture

Ya that's not a bad idea some sort of unified message sent from everyone's personal account to players at the same time would be good

We might not be able to stop the abuse but we can show love for our players and team

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2 hours ago, nick76 said:

I advocate for closer to full free speech being allowed with some very basic decency boundaries. Do you think my examples in my last comment were unreasonable decency boundaries? If you think they were unreasonable then we’ll never agree.

I will never agree with any limit other than direct incitement to violence for the reason I already said.

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27 minutes ago, paul514 said:

I will never agree with any limit other than direct incitement to violence for the reason I already said.

Ok I accept that’s your view, I find it crazy and I’m glad that’s not a common view.  I’m glad society is blocking avenues to certain speech like kicking racism out of the game whether live or on media platforms, it has no place in life.  I’m all for free speech but never for hate speech.

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12 minutes ago, Don_Simon said:

This is legit scary.

Ok well before section 127 of the communications act was passed under Blair that was how it was in the UK and still is like that in the USA.

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29 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Ok I accept that’s your view, I find it crazy and I’m glad that’s not a common view.  I’m glad society is blocking avenues to certain speech like kicking racism out of the game whether live or on media platforms, it has no place in life.  I’m all for free speech but never for hate speech.

Its not about being for hate speech it’s about people being free to express themselves as a fundamental right.

But isn’t it nice to talk to someone with the opposite views cordially 🙃

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15 minutes ago, paul514 said:

Ok well before section 127 of the communications act was passed under Blair that was how it was in the UK and still is like that in the USA.

And the UK is better for it and the US is a cesspit. 

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6 minutes ago, paul514 said:

Its not about being for hate speech it’s about people being free to express themselves as a fundamental right.

Not trying to say you do hate speech yourself more that you are ok that people have a right to hate speech.

I’m also not in favour of people free to express themselves as a fundamental right if it is intentionally done in a hate speech manner designed to cause harm to others

15 minutes ago, paul514 said:

But isn’t it nice to talk to someone with the opposite views cordially 🙃

It is, I find it fascinating somebody has this view and as somebody said, a little scary!  With your view you are allowing so much that causes so much pain to others from depression and people committing suicide at the extreme ends but it’s ok in your view because the original view(s) aren’t inciting violence and should have a fundamental right to express their views.

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5 hours ago, paul514 said:

I also don’t want some arbitrary company policing what can and can’t be said. If someone can’t deal with other peoples opinions then it is sensible to remove themselves from that situation.

Perhaps some company wants to police what what is said? Perhaps they feel expression of some thoughts will be bad for business?

Say you own a soap box and I want to talk in favour of limiting free speech at Hyde Park Corner. Do you think you should be forced to lend me your soap box?

 

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1 hour ago, fruitvilla said:

Perhaps some company wants to police what what is said? Perhaps they feel expression of some thoughts will be bad for business?

Say you own a soap box and I want to talk in favour of limiting free speech at Hyde Park Corner. Do you think you should be forced to lend me your soap box?

 

Yes, I get that point entirely. I don’t argue they don’t have the right to censor what is said on a platform they have created.

I want that right taken away from them so it is treated as a public space and ergo free speech is allowed short of direct incitement to violence.

As a complete side issue social media takes all the privileges of not being a publisher (editing what is said on the platform is what makes something a publication) whilst actually being a publisher.

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1 hour ago, nick76 said:

Not trying to say you do hate speech yourself more that you are ok that people have a right to hate speech.

I’m also not in favour of people free to express themselves as a fundamental right if it is intentionally done in a hate speech manner designed to cause harm to others

It is, I find it fascinating somebody has this view and as somebody said, a little scary!  With your view you are allowing so much that causes so much pain to others from depression and people committing suicide at the extreme ends but it’s ok in your view because the original view(s) aren’t inciting violence and should have a fundamental right to express their views.

That’s fine but if you don’t allow ideas to flow then resentment builds and conflict follows.

Sunlight is always the best disinfection 

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1 hour ago, paul514 said:

I want that right taken away from them so it is treated as a public space and ergo free speech is allowed short of direct incitement to violence.

You did not answer my question  Paul ... should you be forced to lend me your soap box? Hyde Park is a public space? It would seem that your answer might be yes.

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