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2021/22 expectations


Jareth
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3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

But it wasn't a successful period.

Just like Spurs under Poch wasn't a successful period or Wolves under Nuno wasn't a successful period.

They are good achievements but not success.

It all depends on how you measure success. If it's solely based on winning a Trophy then they weren't successful periods. If it's based on giving the fans amazing memories and a period of time in the clubs history people look back fondly on then it was successful. 

For any fans making a CL final is better than winning an EFL Cup for example. 

Edited by CVByrne
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1 minute ago, The Fun Factory said:

Our accounts.

We have basically become Burnley then if we look on mid table as success.

That's fine if you have lowered the bar to that level but then don't call Aston Villa a big club anymore. No big clubs would deem mid table as success.

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1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

But it wasn't a successful period.

Just like Spurs under Poch wasn't a successful period or Wolves under Nuno wasn't a successful period.

They are good achievements but not success.

I think we have to adjust. It is very hard to win a trophy outside the usual lot.  Taking a guess its is probably only  Leicester Wigan and Blues who have won  a trophy outside the usual teams  in the last 10 years. And 2 of those got relegated in the same season. If we could be a regular top 10 team that would be a successful period now in this era. It is loaded against us.

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3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

They are good achievements but not success.

Semantics. That's playing your silverware only definition of success against other people's broader definition of what we've done. So as long as you can see what it is that they're saying, we can agree to disagree on what the definition of success is to each other. Otherwise we'll go round and round in circles.

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9 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I think for Grealish it was to improve himself as a footballer by testing himself against the very best in the Champions League and achieving personal honours and winning the top trophies as a team both with City and England. 

If I were him I'd have done the same, moved on. I think it is good for both Villa and Grealish.

Totally agree that’s it’s good for all concerned and let’s us all move on. I just don’t really see how the two measures of ‘success’ are comparable. 
Horses for courses of course!

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1 minute ago, BOF said:

Semantics. That's playing your silverware only definition of success against other people's broader definition of what we've done. So as long as you can see what it is that they're saying, we can agree to disagree on what the definition of success is to each other. Otherwise we'll go round and round in circles.

I just think success is the wrong word to use bud.

Especially considering the size of club this is.

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47 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

The Noses went down the same season as winning a cup too but think that was the League Cup. They are so tinpot that they still celebrate that success now!

 

Success for me would be challenging for top 4/top 6 every season as that’s where a club of our size should be and allows us to build a great squad. Winning trophies is a luxury and should be an additional aim but it’s difficult with city, Chelsea and United and their clear advantages to everyone else.

 

Most neutrals I talk to think Villa has the potential to be a huge club. Even my dad who’s a spuds fan thinks that. 

i'd be interested to survey the noses as to whether they'd give that trophy up today to still be in the PL. i'd wager a good few would rather still be in the PL with a stadium that isn't falling apart and the only decent youth player they've had for years still playing for them

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21 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

But we were a Championship team 3 years ago. We are not going to flick a switch and become a Champions League team overnight. It takes some time of continued success to get AVFC up to that level

 And we're improving in all the right directions. Hoovering up youth talent like Chelsea did for years (somewhat questionably in some cases). Making intelligent signings imo. I prefer our long term sustainability strategy more than a lot of teams

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It seems when it comes to fans today, most just want  win, win, win and instant success. Of course we would love to be like PSG Or Man City, buy who we want and don't worry about future financial prospects, always be towards the top of the table, winning trophies. However, I just think a dose of realism is needed in the sense that this going to take a bit longer for us than others but I have no doubt we will get there sooner rather than later.

I would much rather be a team like we are rather than just trying to buy a title.

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Metric for next five years has to be qualifying for europe regularly.

We haven't played in any form of european competition for over 10 years now and we weren't too good at it in the 2000s either compared to what we were doing in the 90s.

In recent times promoted teams like Hull, Wolves, Stoke and Burnley have all played in europa to varying degrees of success so yes for the money we're spending I think Wes and Nas should be expecting that in near future given it goes down to 7th.

Do that and it's easier to keep top players as they will feel we're improving and it's a good stepping stone to eventually making CL which is long term goal I'm sure but you obviously need lots of things to go for you in a season and even then it's still very hard to make it as we found out between 2008-10 and Leicester have in last two seasons.

Would also help with revenue streams and getting better sponsorship I'm sure.

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The purest measure of success over a period of time would be the average number of points in the Prem and the average finishing positions. It removes lots of variables that cup competitions have season over season, like luck of draw and "on the day" events like mistakes, the ref etc..

For me I look at our placings on a consistent basis in the football pyramid. In 96 we were 4th and in 1997 we were 5th. For me the 90s was the period I look back on the most fondly in my time as a Villa fan. Then the MON years in 2008-2010 we were 6th. Which means the goal for us right now is to break back into the top 6.

To come 5th would be our best league performance in a quarter of a century. That's like 1/5th the number of league seasons there has been. 

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1 hour ago, The Fun Factory said:

I think we have to adjust. It is very hard to win a trophy outside the usual lot.  Taking a guess its is probably only  Leicester Wigan and Blues who have won  a trophy outside the usual teams  in the last 10 years. And 2 of those got relegated in the same season. If we could be a regular top 10 team that would be a successful period now in this era. It is loaded against us.

Swansea have also won a trophy (and been relegated since) in the last 10 years (at least I hope it wasn't longer ago otherwise time really is flying by) but I guess we must've had a pretty tough draw that season.

Edited by fightoffyour
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19 hours ago, villalad21 said:

In what world is that success?

Great question. As many have pointed out success in football is not just winning top flight trophy’s. If that was the case the majority of football clubs in the country have never tasted success. 

I do feel to measure our success by trophy’s considering we were 2 weeks away from administration 3 years ago comes across extremely entitled.  

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1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

We have basically become Burnley then if we look on mid table as success.

That's fine if you have lowered the bar to that level but then don't call Aston Villa a big club anymore. No big clubs would deem mid table as success.

Fine, happy not to call us a big club. Compared to the top 6 we probably aren’t based on your interpretation of big club.

 I’ll still enjoy going to Villa Park and supporting my team every other park. 

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1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

We have basically become Burnley then if we look on mid table as success.

That's fine if you have lowered the bar to that level but then don't call Aston Villa a big club anymore. No big clubs would deem mid table as success.

Give it a rest pal

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