Pre match thread

[OutByEaster?]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

Not sure if you're serious or not but Wesley is nowhere near ready to start.

Yeah, you're quite right, just mucking about with line ups to see what's there. I think the team pretty much picks itself as it is.

[VillaChris]

Last Sunday was Barkley's first start for about two months and given he was subbed yet again just after the hour mark he obivously didn't do enough to convince DS given we were losing and you keep your best attacking players on at that point so don't really see his selection is a cert unless it's just a case of he may score v his old club.

And would take Traore out as he's struggled for many weeks to influence things.

I'd actually just play a 4-3-1-2, it's more or less what Everton will do with Hames in number 10 role behind Richarlison and DCL so match them up a bit with front 2 of Ollie and Davis and have AEG drifting in centrally.

Ancelotti teams don't generally play with much width and most of play is central so we certainly need three central midfielders in for this one.

[OutByEaster?]

It's interesting, I think a few of us would like to see Traore given a break, but it's pretty much impossible to do without changing the shape.

I think we're at a point where an experiment with a change of shape might benefit us given the players we have available - I'd also like to see two up top in that 4-3-1-2, with Davis and Watkins leading the line and McGinn, Nakamba and Luiz in front of the back four, I think Targett and Cash can then give us width bombing forward and both of the forwards are capable of holding the ball up and moving wide too.

I think on balance I would start Barkley there, it's the role that in theory he's most naturally suited to, he'd have lots of cover and two in front of him, if he's not got ninety in him, the natural replacement toward the end would be Ramsey, but it'd be a brilliant opportunity to give Chukwuemeka ten minutes as our number ten, or if we need to bring Wesley on and play with the three strikers.

Sadly I'm not sure it'll happen, it'll be the usual 4-1-4-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 or 4-3-3 or however you want to describe it - with Traore and El Ghazi our wide.

[Tomaszk]

10 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

It's interesting, I think a few of us would like to see Traore given a break, but it's pretty much impossible to do without changing the shape.

I think we're at a point where an experiment with a change of shape might benefit us given the players we have available - I'd also like to see two up top in that 4-3-1-2, with Davis and Watkins leading the line and McGinn, Nakamba and Luiz in front of the back four, I think Targett and Cash can then give us width bombing forward and both of the forwards are capable of holding the ball up and moving wide too.

I think on balance I would start Barkley there, it's the role that in theory he's most naturally suited to, he'd have lots of cover and two in front of him, if he's not got ninety in him, the natural replacement toward the end would be Ramsey, but it'd be a brilliant opportunity to give Chukwuemeka ten minutes as our number ten, or if we need to bring Wesley on and play with the three strikers.

Sadly I'm not sure it'll happen, it'll be the usual 4-1-4-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 or 4-3-3 or however you want to describe it - with Traore and El Ghazi our wide.

Since the Championship my biggest gripe with Smith has been inability/willingness to try different formations.

I don't mind the subs thing as much as others. I think he changes it if a player is looking rubbish, but if they're OK he trusts them.

I think we played 4231 for 45 mins in the promotion season.

The move to 343 last year was mad panic when were in a death spiral - and it worked for a few games.

I agree with your comments above.

I think Chelsea's current 3-4-2-1 would work well for us with the two behind the striker being a bit narrower.

It's been worth a go for a while as well because it gets our poor wingers out the starting XI.

[zab6359]

Have to admit I really dislike it when fans call for the young academy/u18/u23's players to get game time it's one of the easiest ways to ruin a player.  If they are good enough and ready DS will play them simple as.

Probably why KD isn't quite the player he has the potential to be is an idiot manager playing him to early in his career!

[AvonVillain]

3 hours ago, zab6359 said:

Have to admit I really dislike it when fans call for the young academy/u18/u23's players to get game time it's one of the easiest ways to ruin a player.  If they are good enough and ready DS will play them simple as.

Probably why KD isn't quite the player he has the potential to be is an idiot manager playing him to early in his career!

Completely lost by that last line. Jude Bellingham is 17 and played regularly in the Champions League, and now has senior England call. When you have nothing left to play for in essence, it makes perfect sense to pick a youth product over someone running down their contract or otherwise likely to leave at the end of the season. I can't see getting 10 or 20 minutes here and there ruining anyone's career. Quite the opposite.

[barry'sboots]

3 hours ago, zab6359 said:

Have to admit I really dislike it when fans call for the young academy/u18/u23's players to get game time it's one of the easiest ways to ruin a player.  If they are good enough and ready DS will play them simple as.

Probably why KD isn't quite the player he has the potential to be is an idiot manager playing him to early in his career!

Why do you think this?  If a young player gets a start and doesn't deliver then there would be a discussion about how to progress their career, involving loans etc..  I'm sure every young player would want that opportunity to play in the first team.  Lack of first team opportunities are the reason a number of young players e.g. Sancho and Bellingham are leaving the PL to go to the Bundesliga at the minute.  Now is the perfect time as there is absolutely zero pressure and little chance that, even if they don't perform (if they are in the front 6) the likelihood is that they won't do much worse than those experienced players that they replace given recent performances.  I think there are a fair few that could get minutes over the next 6 games without doing them any harm and it could benefit us in terms of assessing their development and also keeping them happy.  It also shows other potential new young recruits that the first team is accessible. 

I wouldn't normally advocate playing youngsters before they are ready but I think we are in a no lose situation at the minute with only upside?  I can't see minutes towards the end of a dead season doing any damage??

As for KD, I think he is a decent player but he doesn't fit the way that Smith wants to play - Smith is wedded to a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 and KD, at the minute (he could develop with regular game time), is more suited to playing in a pair (drawing the CB's away from the other striker/providing support in the way that Heskey did with Owen for example).  But to do this, you have to set up differently and make sure that your width is provided in a different way and you are not over exposed in CM e.g. a 4-1-2-1-2 or a 3-4-1-2.

 

[barry'sboots]

6 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

I think Chelsea's current 3-4-2-1 would work well for us with the two behind the striker being a bit narrower.

3-4-1-2 for me with Watkins and KD up top.

As I said before, I would play BT off them.  I think he would benefit from the freedom of playing at 10 with 3 behind him.

I would really like to see this.

I can't see Smith moving awat from the 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 that he is wedded to unfortunately, in spite of the fact it hasn't worked for the last 15 or so games, including a few games with Jack in the team.

[OutByEaster?]

7 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

I think Chelsea's current 3-4-2-1 would work well for us with the two behind the striker being a bit narrower.

So a:

----------------------------Martinez-------------------------

---------Konsa-----------Mings--------Hause---------

Cash----------Luiz---------McGinn----------Targett

------------Barkley---------------Ramsey---------------

---------------------------Watkins---------------------------

type of thing?

 

[Tomaszk]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

So a:

----------------------------Martinez-------------------------

---------Konsa-----------Mings--------Hause---------

Cash----------Luiz---------McGinn----------Targett

------------Barkley---------------Ramsey---------------

---------------------------Watkins---------------------------

type of thing?

 

Even without Jack that line-up just looks so much more solid.

[brummybloke]

7 hours ago, zab6359 said:

Have to admit I really dislike it when fans call for the young academy/u18/u23's players to get game time it's one of the easiest ways to ruin a player.  If they are good enough and ready DS will play them simple as.

Probably why KD isn't quite the player he has the potential to be is an idiot manager playing him to early in his career!

Better bin off most of our u18 and u23 then as they played a first team game v Liverpool in the fa Cup.

Seeing people stroll or not even stroll around doing nothing for the team is far more damaging seeing them repeatedly picked over giving other squad members including a few of the younger ones some 1st team action.

Give the best ones a taste of what is to come if they keep on improving.

 

Would drop traore and Berkley, bring nakamba in with luiz and push mgginn up field. It's then down to 1 winger in el ghazi and I would put Ramsey in on the other side and have davis up front with ollie being given the chance to go where he wants in the top half.

[villalad21]

...............Martinez.............. 

Cash.. Konsa... Mings.. Targett

............ Nakamba.................. 

........... Luiz.... Ramsey............ 

Watkins........ Davis....... El Goalzy 

[AntrimBlack]

It will be more of the same. Smith has been playing safe for some time now, and I can't see him doing much different until the end of the season.

It makes for rather turgid watching, but it is what it is. I will always watch the game, but at the moment it is without much enthusiasm.

Roll on the end of the season.

[VillaChris]

Being radical Douglas Luiz played a fair bit for Girona in back 3. Not sure where he played though and how it would fit here as I couldn't really imagine him playing either wide position and you obviously don't play him central, perhaps as a sweeper type to read play and build up moves but I don't have enough badges to work it out! Probably something a Bielsa type would do, fairly sure Kalvin Phillips played the odd game for them there in the past and Ayling plays in a back 3 pretty regularly.

If Sanson was fit I'd play him there against a smaller strikeforce like Everton have just to see what it looks like.

[Zatman]

9 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Being radical Douglas Luiz played a fair bit for Girona in back 3. Not sure where he played though and how it would fit here as I couldn't really imagine him playing either wide position and you obviously don't play him central, perhaps as a sweeper type to read play and build up moves but I don't have enough badges to work it out! Probably something a Bielsa type would do, fairly sure Kalvin Phillips played the odd game for them there in the past and Ayling plays in a back 3 pretty regularly.

If Sanson was fit I'd play him there against a smaller strikeforce like Everton have just to see what it looks like.

The drama if we played Luiz there, sure people are crying he isnt tall or physical enough to play defensive midfield

[andyjsg]

22 hours ago, AvonVillain said:

Completely lost by that last line. Jude Bellingham is 17 and played regularly in the Champions League, and now has senior England call. When you have nothing left to play for in essence, it makes perfect sense to pick a youth product over someone running down their contract or otherwise likely to leave at the end of the season. I can't see getting 10 or 20 minutes here and there ruining anyone's career. Quite the opposite.

People develop differently, just because one player can smash it at 16, others take longer to develop. I was lightweight and 5' 8" at 17 and 6' 2" and 13 1/2 stone at 22.

These academy staff we have will know when players are ready and Im sure Dean does too, we will see them when they are ready to play.

[smg]

22 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

It will be more of the same. Smith has been playing safe for some time now, and I can't see him doing much different until the end of the season.

It makes for rather turgid watching, but it is what it is. I will always watch the game, but at the moment it is without much enthusiasm.

Roll on the end of the season.

Would be much more exciting if we were in the relegation zone needing x points to stay up with y games to play then ?

[WooJung]

A 3-5-2 would be interesting with Matty and Matty bombing forward and lumping crosses for Davis and Watkins, with mcginn or Ramsey  making runs from behind. 

I doubt we'll go for that though, it'll probably be the usual 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 depending on weather we start nakamba, Ramsey or barkley. 

As a front 3 I'd like to see Davis start with Watkins and El Ghazi on the flanks, and they could switch flanks throughout the game. 

That would allow us to bring Traore and Wesley from the bench which would be quite exciting. Traore has been poor so maybe dropping him would be a healthy kick up his backside 

[PaulC]

I hope we dont go three at the back and I dont think we will.  I'd stick with the same team as against West Brom Cash replacing Elmo. Davis coming in and Watkins out wide in place of El Ghazi. 

[AntrimBlack]

2 hours ago, smg said:

Would be much more exciting if we were in the relegation zone needing x points to stay up with y games to play then ?

That's got nothing to do with what I said. Of course I don't want to be fighting relegation, but my point was that I am not enthusiastic about watching games at the moment.

If you find our recent performances enjoyable to watch, that's ok, but I don't.