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Breakaway League


Jareth

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5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Keane the pundit in favour of fans protesting because of the super league and then a breath later Utd should sign Kane and Grealish in the summer - where's the oney coming from for that?

The weird thing about the protests we've seen off the back of the super league so far is that they've all been carried out by the people who would have been the beneficiaries of the super league - Man Utd, Arsenal etc and not by those who would have been the victims of it, us, Everton, Leeds. 

And there's absolutely no acceptance within those who are linked with the biggest clubs that part of the solution is to end a situation where big teams can financially dominate for a decade - the solution to this, the way forward is a league where United occasionally finish tenth, where Liverpool occasionally finish tenth, where Everton and Leeds have a chance of getting into the champions league.

Keane - money is ruining the game and Utd should spend's £300m on two players in the summer.

Summing up man utd fans perfectly, like I said in the other thread they don't even know they're born

Wearing yellow and green scarves and kicking off because it's unfair that they can't go out and buy whoever they want for whatever they want, they had 20 years of doing it and winning everything, now other teams have caught and overtook them it's a **** travesty that requires a protest... Despite the fact that they still repeatedly spend huge amounts of money, the club with the 2nd highest wage bill in the PL, £200m a year, are moaning because they consider themselves unable to compete, its a myth peddled purely by the fact that they can't comprehend not winning 

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2 hours ago, villa89 said:

Why? I dont think the owners will sell up or care about any fan protests. They haven't cared before why would they start now. 

Good point, let's just let them roll over us and go back to their heinous plan. 

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2 minutes ago, villa89 said:

It wasn't the fans that stopped them.

No, but the need to be reminded over and over that no one will allow this to happen. 

Fans did indirectly stop it anyway.  If there had been no outcry no one would have bothered trying to stop it. 

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14 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Keane the pundit in favour of fans protesting because of the super league and then a breath later Utd should sign Kane and Grealish in the summer - where's the money coming from for that?

The weird thing about the protests we've seen off the back of the super league so far is that they've all been carried out by the people who would have been the beneficiaries of the super league - Man Utd, Arsenal etc and not by those who would have been the victims of it, us, Everton, Leeds. 

And there's absolutely no acceptance within those who are linked with the biggest clubs that part of the solution is to end a situation where big teams can financially dominate for a decade - the solution to this, the way forward is a league where United occasionally finish tenth, where Liverpool occasionally finish tenth, where Everton and Leeds have a chance of getting into the champions league.

Keane - money is ruining the game and Utd should spend's £300m on two players in the summer.

 

To be fair to manure, if the Glazers stopped sucking the blood out of the club they could easily buy Kane and Grealish in the summer. That is the crux of the issue for fans in Manchester. Man utd make shitloads of money, it's just that the money is funneled out of the club. 

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13 hours ago, villa89 said:

It wasn't the fans that stopped them.

Boris and the government wouldn't give two shits about this if the fans hadn't been up in arms. The fans did stop this. What's more I think it's also made UEFA and the other corrupt cronies take note of this backlash. We should be using this momentum to protest Quatar and the rest of the idiocy decided by old corrupt men who have no sense of the grassroots anymore.

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20 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

To be fair to manure, if the Glazers stopped sucking the blood out of the club they could easily buy Kane and Grealish in the summer. That is the crux of the issue for fans in Manchester. Man utd make shitloads of money, it's just that the money is funneled out of the club. 

that is the crux of it

they spent 20 years doing whatever they wanted, buying whoever they wanted, winning everything and now they don't because the financial disparity that they enjoyed for so long has been taken away from them and they think its unfair - not a **** chance!

and like i said last night man utd are the ones who pushed for this globalisation, they're the ones who championed FFP to try and close the door on everyone else because they made so much money, they're the ones that the likes of barca have tried to copy...and now we're sat here saying poor old man utd fans? what is going on?! this is the bed they made for themselves, they are a business, they dont moan when that business was winning them the league, we are currently in a position in football that man utd have been angling us towards for 30 years and for the last 10 its been a problem whereas for the previous 20 it wasn't? whys that? 

and then as for the glazers leeching money off them, they've spent £1bn in transfers in 8 years as well as £200m a year in wages, having money is not their problem, spending money is their problem, they still spend shit loads of money, under the glazers they've won 5 PLs, 1 Fa cup, 4 league cups, 6 charity shields, 1 champions league, 1 Europa league which is probably about to be 2, and the club world championship - and they're moaning that they dont spend enough and they dont win enough...get the **** out of it

dont let your opinion of how shit the ESL is somehow put flowers on what man utd are

Edited by villa4europe
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15 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Keane - money is ruining the game and Utd should spend's £300m on two players in the summer.

Yes the lack of bigger picture thinking by many actors in all of this is quite baffling. 

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1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

that is the crux of it

they spent 20 years doing whatever they wanted, buying whoever they wanted, winning everything and now they don't because the financial disparity that they enjoyed for so long has been taken away from them and they think its unfair - not a **** chance!

and like i said last night man utd are the ones who pushed for this globalisation, they're the ones who championed FFP to try and close the door on everyone else because they made so much money, they're the ones that the likes of barca have tried to copy...and now we're sat here saying poor old man utd fans? what is going on?! this is the bed they made for themselves, they are a business, they dont moan when that business was winning them the league, we are currently in a position in football that man utd have been angling us towards for 30 years and for the last 10 its been a problem whereas for the previous 20 it wasn't? whys that? 

and then as for the glazers leeching money off them, they've spent £1bn in transfers in 8 years as well as £200m a year in wages, having money is not their problem, spending money is their problem, they still spend shit loads of money, under the glazers they've won 5 PLs, 1 Fa cup, 4 league cups, 6 charity shields, 1 champions league, 1 Europa league which is probably about to be 2, and the club world championship - and they're moaning that they dont spend enough and they dont win enough...get the **** out of it

dont let your opinion of how shit the ESL is somehow put flowers on what man utd are

I'm no fan of manure, but unless we get a wage and transfer cap you can't really stop clubs from becoming large financially. Manure have pretty much built this organically, and the money the glazers have put in is nowhere near what they've taken out. Would you talk Villa down if we made the kind of money man utd does on kit sales\sponsorships etc? 

The issue with this is that the Glazers wanted to make sporting success a guarantee, you can have all the money in the world yet underperform.

The issue for Barcelona and Madrid is that they don't make the kind of money that manure does. They're over-leveraged and underperforming. It's an issue that they can't run away from.

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39 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I'm no fan of manure, but unless we get a wage and transfer cap you can't really stop clubs from becoming large financially. Manure have pretty much built this organically, and the money the glazers have put in is nowhere near what they've taken out. Would you talk Villa down if we made the kind of money man utd does on kit sales\sponsorships etc? 

The issue with this is that the Glazers wanted to make sporting success a guarantee, you can have all the money in the world yet underperform.

The issue for Barcelona and Madrid is that they don't make the kind of money that manure does. They're over-leveraged and underperforming. It's an issue that they can't run away from.

Essentially it boils down to this laissez-faire style ruining football. You let the money control and this is where it takes you over time.

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3 hours ago, osmark86 said:

Essentially it boils down to this laissez-faire style ruining football. You let the money control and this is where it takes you over time.

Actually, the problem for these clubs is laissez-faire - the problem is that left to a true open market, the new money of Chelsea, Man City and PSG and whoever the Saudis buy will trump the old money of Real, Barca and a United with owners that take out rather put in. These clubs don't want free market capitalism, they want protectionism. That's at the heart of Man Utd's protest.

 

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I think with United's protest yesterday that even though they aren't actually protesting the things that I believe in or addressing the issues that the super league exposed, they do at least keep a very important narrative open, and that is the narrative that unless something gets done, there's an anger from supporters that won't go away and will manifest itself in unexpected ways.

The business of money in football, TV and sponsorship and so on is in absolute terror of the idea that fan anger will be disruptive, and that terror is a really powerful force that hopefully ensures that UEFA and the leagues don't feel like they can let this go away quietly. I think the message is that fans believe football is broken and that if no one takes any steps to fix it, we'll break it some more until they have to.

The 'sorry is not enough' message is coming through, regardless of whether that was the intent from United's fans.

 

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25 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think with United's protest yesterday that even though they aren't actually protesting the things that I believe in or addressing the issues that the super league exposed, they do at least keep a very important narrative open, and that is the narrative that unless something gets done, there's an anger from supporters that won't go away and will manifest itself in unexpected ways.

The business of money in football, TV and sponsorship and so on is in absolute terror of the idea that fan anger will be disruptive, and that terror is a really powerful force that hopefully ensures that UEFA and the leagues don't feel like they can let this go away quietly. I think the message is that fans believe football is broken and that if no one takes any steps to fix it, we'll break it some more until they have to.

The 'sorry is not enough' message is coming through, regardless of whether that was the intent from United's fans.

 

Yeah, I agree.  The Man Ure fans beef is specifically with their owners. The ESL is just one more thing they're angry about and was just a catalyst for more anti Glazer protesters. 

However whatever the reason is just continues the fan power narrative, and getting a match called off is major, it's a very powerful message and will inevitably hurt the owners financially.in some way. 

At this point the powers that be need to have the message reinforced until it's imprinted into their psyche that football is nothing without fans and their will should at all times be paramount. 

Edited by sidcow
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56972776

European Super League: Premier League brings in new owners' rule to stop repeat

Quote

The Premier League is to bring in a new owners' charter to stop future attempts to join a breakaway Super League.

It follows Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester City and Tottenham agreeing to join the failed European Super League last month.

All owners will have to sign up to the new rule "committing them to the core principles" of the league with breaches punished by "significant" sanctions.

The league said "a few clubs cannot be allowed to create such division".

 

Quote

The Super League proposal, which also included some of Europe's biggest clubs, collapsed within 72 hours after widespread criticism from fans, players and governing bodies and politicians.

The Premier League said it is "determined" to "hold those clubs accountable for their decisions and actions".

"We and the FA are pursuing these objectives quickly and appropriately, consulting with fans and government," it said.

The Premier League also said it would introduce "additional rules and regulation to ensure the principles of the Premier League and open competition are protected".

It said it is seeking help from the government to bring in legislation to protect the football pyramid and "the integrity of the football community".

"The events of the last two weeks have challenged the foundations and resolve of English football," the Premier League said.

"These measures are designed to stop the threat of breakaway leagues in the future."

 

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5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Actually, the problem for these clubs is laissez-faire - the problem is that left to a true open market, the new money of Chelsea, Man City and PSG and whoever the Saudis buy will trump the old money of Real, Barca and a United with owners that take out rather put in. These clubs don't want free market capitalism, they want protectionism. That's at the heart of Man Utd's protest.

 

You're right. Laissez-faire was a poor choice, it is more oligarchial as you say in reality. I think football needs more regulation (salary caps, cutting out agents etc..) to reduce the power of capital applied to all clubs. It's too much of a money's game now.

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1 minute ago, osmark86 said:

I think football needs more regulation (salary caps, cutting out agents etc..) to reduce the power of capital applied to all clubs. It's too much of a money's game now.

Absolutely this - there should still be scope for the clubs with the largest fanbases to have some sort of advantage because of that, but it shouldn't be so pronounced as it is now. 

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Gary Neville has set up a WhatsApp pundits group to bring up Super League stuff. Power has gone to his head, an absolute bluffer

Works for Sky, happily worked for Glazers for years. Not sure what his actual complaints are 😂

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15 hours ago, osmark86 said:

You're right. Laissez-faire was a poor choice, it is more oligarchial as you say in reality. I think football needs more regulation (salary caps, cutting out agents etc..) to reduce the power of capital applied to all clubs. It's too much of a money's game now.

How much money is too much money? And why?

I really agree with the spirit of what you are saying, but I feel that it's an emotional argument rather than one based on the rights of ownership and free market that those clubs were purchased under.

Too much money is subjective and open to discussion while at the end of the day, Man U, Villa or Southampton are owned by someone - they are someone's business. We may not like it as fans, but someone owns those teams.

So I'd be careful with putting restrictions on these clubs. What I would do instead is hold them accountable to their books - if West Ham want to buy Mbappe for £500m, pay him £1m a week and pay the agent £100m that is absolutely fine in my opinion. But they will go bust because that will bring them greater debt and it will not be a good investment. It will generate a loss.

Give teams like Villa or Everton a real chance to compete financially with Man Utd or Chelsea. But if it goes south, hold them accountable. 

Edited by Mic09
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