Team shape, tactics and personnel

[Woody1000]

11 minutes ago, The Inspiration said:

Yeah I agree, was just going down the matching up avenue

We may well match them up, my only concern would be where you draw the line over the quality of your opponents - it’s totally understandable to do it away at a top team like Chelsea, but I’d be very concerned if we were constantly changing our formation to match our opposition, especially an opponent we should be trying to take the game to.

[TRO]

5 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

I agree with this. Cash I was hoping would improve the attacking side of his game but it just doesn't seem to be the case. Neither offers enough in an attacking sense for me at this moment in time.

I too am not as convinced with the full backs as some, at this moment in time, not ascertive/imposing enough for me .....but we will see going forward.

I have seen better at VP

Edited September 17, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Woody1000 said:

We may well match them up, my only concern would be where you draw the line over the quality of your opponents - it’s totally understandable to do it away at a top team like Chelsea, but I’d be very concerned if we were constantly changing our formation to match our opposition, especially an opponent we should be trying to take the game to.

Its a good point....but I don't think we've gelled as a team yet.....getting closer, last week.

its ok players showing individual progress, thats great.....but its team performance we are seeking.

[Woody1000]

16 minutes ago, TRO said:

I too am not as convinced with the full backs as some, at this moment in time, not ascertive/imposing enough for me .....but we will see going forward.

I have seen better at VP

See I’m fairly happy with them defensively, and they do support our attacks from out wide, but I’m not sure that they are good enough going forward to be THE wide attacking threat if that makes sense, which I feel a 3-5-2/5-3-2 would require.

[CVByrne]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

I too am not as convinced with the full backs as some, at this moment in time, not ascertive/imposing enough for me .....but we will see going forward.

I have seen better at VP

I agree with you in the Full Backs. Yes defensively they have been great last season as part of a great back 5 performance getting 15 clean sheets. Targett I feel had the hugely beneficial position with Jack in front of him for most of the season which would occupy the opposition right back more than an El Ghazi. So less overloads on Targetts side than Cash would have had when Traore took over from Trez. 

You look at the top teams and what is expected of the full backs and their attacking output is the difference maker. It's a big season for both our fullbacks as I see a LB signing in the summer as guaranteed, while Kessler Hayden is going to pushing Cash hard for a starting spot regardless at RB next season.

[Woody1000]

3 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I agree with you in the Full Backs. Yes defensively they have been great last season as part of a great back 5 performance getting 15 clean sheets. Targett I feel had the hugely beneficial position with Jack in front of him for most of the season which would occupy the opposition right back more than an El Ghazi. So less overloads on Targetts side than Cash would have had when Traore took over from Trez. 

You look at the top teams and what is expected of the full backs and their attacking output is the difference maker. It's a big season for both our fullbacks as I see a LB signing in the summer as guaranteed, while Kessler Hayden is going to pushing Cash hard for a starting spot regardless at RB next season.

You make a really great point there that I hadn’t really considered before. Questions are always asked about wingers/wide attackers about their ability to track back, but I’d never considered their ability to nullify the opponents full back just by their presence.

[CVByrne]

6 minutes ago, Woody1000 said:

You make a really great point there that I hadn’t really considered before. Questions are always asked about wingers/wide attackers about their ability to track back, but I’d never considered their ability to nullify the opponents full back just by their presence.

Take the case of West Ham playing two right backs against Grealish. 

[CVByrne]

Take a look at fbref defensive stats for Targett and Cash. Cash is only behind Targett in terms of aerials won and Cash is essentially top 90% of defenders for Pressures, Tackles, Interceptions, Blocks and Clearances. It shows the difference in workload down the two sides more than anything for me. You add in the new threat from Cash's throws and the fact last season was his first season in the Prem and I would say Cash is a better player than Targett

[Woody1000]

2 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Take a look at fbref defensive stats for Targett and Cash. Cash is only behind Targett in terms of aerials won and Cash is essentially top 90% of defenders for Pressures, Tackles, Interceptions, Blocks and Clearances. It shows the difference in workload down the two sides more than anything for me. You add in the new threat from Cash's throws and the fact last season was his first season in the Prem and I would say Cash is a better player than Targett

I feel Cash has definitely got the higher ceiling as a player. Perhaps playing as a midfielder before reverting to RB the season before joining us has something to do with him being a more rounded footballer?

[Woody1000]

10 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Take the case of West Ham playing two right backs against Grealish. 

Sorry, I was more referring to the ability to nullify a full backs ability to go forward just through their fear of being caught out of position.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I liked the way we set up on Saturday, wouldn't have an issue with us trying that again. 3 at the back is making a come back. 

[the_sun_never_sets]

I reckon the best team tomorrow is 433 as follows: 
(Buendia on the bench as harder to integrate an outfield player who hasnt been training with the team)
Martinez,

Cash, Konsa, Mings, Young (to combat Everton's effective wingers over Targett)

McGinn, Luiz, Ramsey

Traore, Watkins, Bailey

Ings and Buendia is game-changing subs (nice to have those now!)

I liked 532 but wouldnt play this at home 

Edited September 17, 2021 by the_sun_never_sets

[Vive_La_Villa]

I think we only had 5 at the back because Steer was in a goal and needed extra protection. Expect us to go back to 4 tomorrow. I think Smith has a problem with trying to incorporate both Ings and Watkins.  
 

As mentioned by others we’re not a club in a position to spend 30m players on a player for them to sit on the bench.  

Eventually the right approach might be to let them compete for one spot.

[TheFirstMan]

Martinez

Cash

Konsa

Mings

Targett

 

McGinn

Luiz

Ramsey

 

Bailey

Ings

Watkins

 

4-3-3

 

job done 

[Woody1000]

22 minutes ago, TheFirstMan said:

Martinez

Cash

Konsa

Mings

Targett

 

McGinn

Luiz

Ramsey

 

Bailey

Ings

Watkins

 

4-3-3

 

job done 

That’s what I would go with.

[TomC]

Today's Guardian has an article noting all the choices that Deano has now...pretty much the same conversation we've had here.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/17/no-excuses-for-aston-villa-as-they-aim-to-get-post-grealish-era-truly-started

The problem with deciding for this match is that Everton has started three different formations in four matches...4-4-2, 3-4-3, 4-2-3-1. You can't be sure what you're matching up against. Of course, they will have a hard time predicting what we're going to do, too. Does anyone know the rules about submitting the starting XI? Does the away team go first, or do both sides submit at the same time?

Their attack does appear to be a little stronger on their left side than the right. Cash was excellent last game and Konsa was better than Mings, so I don't think that this will require any tactical adjustment.

Given that I can't predict the other side, I think I'd go with 4-4-2 so I can try fitting all of Ings, Watkins, Buendia and Bailey in and see how it goes. We haven't started a 4-4-2 yet and that would keep Everton off their guard. Bailey and Buendia both seem responsible enough defensively to help with duties in midfield.

 

Watkins - Ings

Bailey - McGinn- Dougie - Buendia

Young - Mings - Konsa - Cash

Martinez

 

 

[The Inspiration]

The emi’s scheduled to land at 0020, quite feasible they both play and not just the big fella with it being a later KO

[Follyfoot]

57 minutes ago, TomC said:

Today's Guardian has an article noting all the choices that Deano has now...pretty much the same conversation we've had here.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/17/no-excuses-for-aston-villa-as-they-aim-to-get-post-grealish-era-truly-started

The problem with deciding for this match is that Everton has started three different formations in four matches...4-4-2, 3-4-3, 4-2-3-1. You can't be sure what you're matching up against. Of course, they will have a hard time predicting what we're going to do, too. Does anyone know the rules about submitting the starting XI? Does the away team go first, or do both sides submit at the same time?

Their attack does appear to be a little stronger on their left side than the right. Cash was excellent last game and Konsa was better than Mings, so I don't think that this will require any tactical adjustment.

Given that I can't predict the other side, I think I'd go with 4-4-2 so I can try fitting all of Ings, Watkins, Buendia and Bailey in and see how it goes. We haven't started a 4-4-2 yet and that would keep Everton off their guard. Bailey and Buendia both seem responsible enough defensively to help with duties in midfield.

 

Watkins - Ings

Bailey - McGinn- Dougie - Buendia

Young - Mings - Konsa - Cash

Martinez

 

 

Very harsh on young Ramsey

Edited September 17, 2021 by Follyfoot

[Johnnyp]

5 hours ago, TomC said:

Today's Guardian has an article noting all the choices that Deano has now...pretty much the same conversation we've had here.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/sep/17/no-excuses-for-aston-villa-as-they-aim-to-get-post-grealish-era-truly-started

The problem with deciding for this match is that Everton has started three different formations in four matches...4-4-2, 3-4-3, 4-2-3-1. You can't be sure what you're matching up against. Of course, they will have a hard time predicting what we're going to do, too. Does anyone know the rules about submitting the starting XI? Does the away team go first, or do both sides submit at the same time?

Their attack does appear to be a little stronger on their left side than the right. Cash was excellent last game and Konsa was better than Mings, so I don't think that this will require any tactical adjustment.

Given that I can't predict the other side, I think I'd go with 4-4-2 so I can try fitting all of Ings, Watkins, Buendia and Bailey in and see how it goes. We haven't started a 4-4-2 yet and that would keep Everton off their guard. Bailey and Buendia both seem responsible enough defensively to help with duties in midfield.

 

Watkins - Ings

Bailey - McGinn- Dougie - Buendia

Young - Mings - Konsa - Cash

Martinez

 

 

Not for me. Ramsey arguably been our best player so far this season.

[VillaChris]

5 hours ago, The Inspiration said:

The emi’s scheduled to land at 0020, quite feasible they both play and not just the big fella with it being a later KO

Think Buendia will be better from the bench personally. Middle trio played well at Chelsea (certainly would be wrong to drop Ramsey and the other two aren't getting dropped).

Really want to see Bailey start and don't think DS will leave out Ings just yet as he's got a decent scoring record v Everton down the years.

Think Bailey for Axel will be only change tomorrow unless there's an injury kept quiet. Looking forward to seeing front 3 of Ings-Bailey-Ollie and how it looks.