Team shape, tactics and personnel

[Zatman]

21 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

79% possession and one clear cut chance. WTF?

Our lack of invention in the final third is just embarrassing at times.

I've only ever seen Leon Bailey be dangerous when he's played on the left. He certainly doesn't help us at the mo when trying to build an attack - getting his head down and running into blind alleys.

The club absolutely ballsed up in the summer. We have one wide player who is out of form and still lumbering Coutinho about the pitch who should never have been signed permanently so we have very little creativity

[stewiek2]

10 hours ago, Risso said:

We just haven't got the players for it though. There's very little actual pace in the team, and also they all mostly take too many touches or play it backwards.

Sadly you're right. A fit Ramsey makes a difference regards upping our tempo and driving us forward. Bailey should be that player but he has no purpose in his runs. Ramsey has that ability to run but also look for his team mates positioning to either make the pass or drive into the area and is comfortable to shoot with either foot.

Edited January 9, 2023 by stewiek2

[HKP90]

9 hours ago, stewiek2 said:

Sadly you're right. A fit Ramsey makes a difference regards upping our tempo and driving us forward. Bailey should be that player but he has no purpose in his runs. Ramsey has that ability to run but also look for his team mates positioning to either make the pace or drive into the area and is comfortable to shoot with either foot.

Bailey looks broken to me. It's his own fault, but he looks like he's s**t scared to do anything risky, like taking on a man. 

[duke313]

6 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Bailey looks broken to me. It's his own fault, but he looks like he's s**t scared to do anything risky, like taking on a man. 

I think we would have seen Kadan for Bailey yesterday if it wasn't the injuries to Matty and Ludwig.

[TheMightyVillans]

Ideally need to finish the season with a match day squad along the lines as below with ideally atleast 3 jan signings

                        Martinez

Young    Carlos     Mings     Moreno

New        Luiz      Kamara     Ramsey

                New        Watkins

 

Bench

Olsen, Konsa, Cash, Digne, Mcginn, Dendoncker, Buendia, Bailey, Ings

Olsen needs replacing but probably have to wait until the summer and hope martinez doesn't get injured/suspended.

 

[CVByrne]

The two biggest issues which need to be resolved are the same ones that blighted Gerrard.

1. Playing out from the back. We are not comfortable doing this yet. I think Carlos will be key and if we get Moreno in hopefully he's adept at it too. With Kamara and Luiz in midfield we've got two players who protect the ball well and are quality passers. Martinez is decent enough passing too. Young at Right Back is decent and better than Cash with passing. It's just a worry with Konsa and Mings. Teams see this as a weakness we have to be exploited and we'll be vulnerable for months to come.

2. Low block, we just lack the players to break down the low block. We need players to get past a man and to the touch line for the cutback pass. The crossing is too easy for opposition to defend. We saw against Wolves and Stevenage how we struggle with this. Add to that a lack of clinical finishing and we simply don't create enough chances or score enough of the chances we create. 

[DJBOB]

Caveat to any of this below - Emery has his hands strung by our personnel. We have a lack of striker options, fullback options, wingers, and any sort of attacking midfielders. We have a stockpile of #10 and #8 types but all with similar skillsets.

So far, our main build up against a defense that has dug in is a 3-2-5. Ironically, not too dissimilar from Gerrard. A lot of sides employ a similar formation in this manner with players having the license to switch and interchange. The one thing we do not do and which is key to this formation and really against most oppositions - is split the defense between their FB and CB. That is really where you will get most of your joy. Too many times our attacks end with either the wide player trying to cross it but being outside of the opposing fullback or a long shot or...a precise tiki taka but that is rare from Villa and not to their strengths (short passing in tight spaces). We pulled one off against Stevenage but that is far from the norm. 

In the image below - you see the rough formation we usually have. Our LB split wide - Buendia/Coutinho - Striker - and then McGinn/Bailey have been interchanging who is in the middle and who is wide.

Luiz-Kamara sit as a double pivot and then Cash/Young-Konsa-Mings form the back 3. Ideally - you would want to occasionally have either Young or a CB step into the midfield to make it a 2-3-5 and allow an extra attacker. The 3-2-5 is often very conservative and limited. But if we can ever pull off a pass in between the FB/CB, highlighted below if Augustinsson had the ball and makes the pass to Coutinho - then you're at least behind the defense. Otherwise, it's all too predictable.

 

 

[danceoftheshamen]

I have to admit that after this last week (Wolves 1st half & that League 2 team we handed the game to yesterday), I am just a little concerned as to the way we are playing. It is just so SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!! 

Is this an Emery thing? Or are the players simply not doing it? Coz when we play like that it is boring as heck and totally ineffective too. It is just a matter of time until the opponent realizes we are little threat and starts taking a few gambles when we happily will then donate a few chances to them by basically passing them the ball in a dangerous position (Exactly what happened on Sunday)

[Reivax_Villa]

28 minutes ago, danceoftheshamen said:

I have to admit that after this last week (Wolves 1st half & that League 2 team we handed the game to yesterday), I am just a little concerned as to the way we are playing. It is just so SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!! 

Is this an Emery thing? Or are the players simply not doing it? Coz when we play like that it is boring as heck and totally ineffective too. It is just a matter of time until the opponent realizes we are little threat and starts taking a few gambles when we happily will then donate a few chances to them by basically passing them the ball in a dangerous position (Exactly what happened on Sunday)

Emery is not really known for a type of  attacking exciting brand of football.

He is known as being a top tactician, coach and creating teams that are effective and difficult to beat.

[markavfc40]

4 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

I have to admit that after this last week (Wolves 1st half & that League 2 team we handed the game to yesterday), I am just a little concerned as to the way we are playing. It is just so SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!! 

Whilst I can totally appreciate what you are saying I think another way of putting it would be that we are being patient. I too think that at times, especially the last two games that there has been too much sideways/backwards passing, but I guess what we are trying to do is retain possession whilst trying to carve out an opening. The trouble has been that our creative players haven't off the back of this patient approach threaded through too many defensive splitting passes or that the likes of Bailey haven't gone down the wings or got in behind and put in chance creating crosses.

As disappointed as I was with yesterday and with the first half against Wolves I can at least take solace in the fact I can see what we are trying to do under Emery whereas under his predecessor I didn't have a clue.  Yesterday we had 80% possession, against Wolves just under 60%. With that amount of possession you'd think we would have carved out more chances than we did but the trouble is the players that you'd expect to - Coutinho, Buendia, Bailey are all off it at the moment. 

I wouldn't expect Emery to be throwing the baby out with the bath water though and wouldn't expect, or want, him to rethink what he is trying to implement. Given the limited time he has been here the fact he has made us a side now able to keep possession much better is some going. Off the back of that possession and patient approach though you clearly need your creative players to provide those moments and create those good chances. If those within the squad can't then I am under zero doubt they will soon be replaced.

I am confident we will get there eventually but it will take a lot more work on the training ground, two or three transfer windows and there are likely to be a lot of in game hiccups and disappointments along the way.

Edited January 9, 2023 by markavfc40

[Aston_Villan4]

4 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

I have to admit that after this last week (Wolves 1st half & that League 2 team we handed the game to yesterday), I am just a little concerned as to the way we are playing. It is just so SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!! 

Is this an Emery thing? Or are the players simply not doing it? Coz when we play like that it is boring as heck and totally ineffective too. It is just a matter of time until the opponent realizes we are little threat and starts taking a few gambles when we happily will then donate a few chances to them by basically passing them the ball in a dangerous position (Exactly what happened on Sunday)

This is what Arsenal fans were warning us about.

[DJBOB]

Unai has a big job on his hands with our attacking play. We lack critical ways to score:

• Set pieces and corners (any semblance of European dreams need to include major threats on set pieces)
• Low blocks (teams know that setting up a 5 across the back will nullify almost all attacks)
• Attacks with width
• Counter-attacks from our own half

We have scored most of our goals under Unai in quick transitions and high up the field interceptions. I think we will continue posing a threat away and against teams set up to attack us, but I wonder a lot about our form at home and teams willing to sit back against us. We will struggle until the summer unless Unai implements some miraculous turnarounds.

[burchy]

I’d like the below personally, with a squad that could easily accommodate an Emery 4231/442/433 hybrid  

                                     Martinez
                                      (NEW)        

       Konsa            Carlos            Torres          Moreno*1
(Young/Cash)    (Konsa)          (Mings)         (Digne)

                      Kokcu                    Kamara
               (Luiz/Sanson)       (Dendonker/Tim)     

         Bailey                 Buendia                   Diaby          
     (Bakayoko/         (Kang Lee/       (Ramsey/Cherki/
        Cherki)                McGinn)             Schjelderup)  

                               (NEW Starter ST)
                       Watkins/Archer/NEW Backup

Wishful thinking perhaps, especially Diaby but over the next two windows something like this for next season would do nicely. 

11 players total, 5 starters, 6 youth/squad

[MaVilla]

35 minutes ago, burchy said:

 

I’d like the below personally, with a squad that could easily accommodate an Emery 4231/442/433 hybrid  

                                     Martinez
                                      (NEW)        

       Konsa            Carlos            Torres          Moreno*1
(Young/Cash)    (Konsa)          (Mings)         (Digne)

                      Kokcu                    Kamara
               (Luiz/Sanson)       (Dendonker/Tim)     

         Bailey                 Buendia                   Diaby          
     (Bakayoko/         (Kang Lee/       (Ramsey/Cherki/
        Cherki)                McGinn)             Schjelderup)  

                               (NEW Starter ST)
                       Watkins/Archer/NEW Backup

Wishful thinking perhaps, especially Diaby but over the next two windows something like this for next season would do nicely. 

11 players total, 5 starters, 6 youth/squad

you know what, i was gonna post something similar.

I wondered if when Carlos is fit, if either Carlos or Konsa would play RB.

I know it sounds strange on paper, but Emery did almost exactly this at Villerreal, Foyth (who is a CB) played RB in the base 442.

However, he wasnt actually a "RB", as in attack Emery liked his left back to get forward, then the 3 remaining defenders moved left to create a back 3, this is why Foyth "on paper" played at RB for Villerreal, as when attacking Foyth then became the outside right CB of the 3.

for example....

in base formation:

 

Going Forward:

 

it does look strange, but this is exactly how Emery set up Villerreal, with a defensive centre back, capable of playing RB defensively, but in attack it becomes a back 3 and the RB becomes an outside CB.

 

Maybe im barking up the wrong tree, but it has crossed my mind a few times now maybe im looking too much in to what Emery did at Villerreal.

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by MaVilla

[IrishVilla10]

19 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

you know what, i was gonna post something similar.

I wondered if when Carlos is fit, if either Carlos or Konsa would play RB.

I know it sounds strange on paper, but Emery did almost exactly this at Villerreal, Foyth (who is a CB) played RB in the base 442.

However, he wasnt actually a "RB", as in attack Emery liked his left back to get forward, then the 3 remaining defenders moved left to create a back 3, this is why Foyth "on paper" played at RB for Villerreal, as when attacking Foyth then became the outside right CB of the 3.

for example....

in base formation:

 

Going Forward:

 

it does look strange, but this is exactly how Emery set up Villerreal, with a defensive centre back, capable of playing RB defensively, but in attack it becomes a back 3 and the RB becomes an outside CB.

 

Maybe im barking up the wrong tree, but it has crossed my mind a few times now maybe im looking too much in to what Emery did at Villerreal.

 

I like the look of this 

[Anything11]

1 hour ago, MaVilla said:

you know what, i was gonna post something similar.

I wondered if when Carlos is fit, if either Carlos or Konsa would play RB.

I know it sounds strange on paper, but Emery did almost exactly this at Villerreal, Foyth (who is a CB) played RB in the base 442.

However, he wasnt actually a "RB", as in attack Emery liked his left back to get forward, then the 3 remaining defenders moved left to create a back 3, this is why Foyth "on paper" played at RB for Villerreal, as when attacking Foyth then became the outside right CB of the 3.

for example....

in base formation:

 

Going Forward:

 

it does look strange, but this is exactly how Emery set up Villerreal, with a defensive centre back, capable of playing RB defensively, but in attack it becomes a back 3 and the RB becomes an outside CB.

 

Maybe im barking up the wrong tree, but it has crossed my mind a few times now maybe im looking too much in to what Emery did at Villerreal.

 

This was already happening against Stevenage. Cash was forming a back 3 if I am not mistaken.

[Delphinho123]

16 hours ago, TheMightyVillans said:

Ideally need to finish the season with a match day squad along the lines as below with ideally atleast 3 jan signings

                        Martinez

Young    Carlos     Mings     Moreno

New        Luiz      Kamara     Ramsey

                New        Watkins

 

Bench

Olsen, Konsa, Cash, Digne, Mcginn, Dendoncker, Buendia, Bailey, Ings

Olsen needs replacing but probably have to wait until the summer and hope martinez doesn't get injured/suspended.

 

I think this is exactly what the club wants to do. For now, the two remaining spots go to McGinn and probably Buendia. I’m sick and tired of Bailey. It’s a sad state of affairs that the three players we spent the Grealish money on probably won’t feature in our best XI in Feb. 

[Delphinho123]

5 hours ago, MaVilla said:

you know what, i was gonna post something similar.

I wondered if when Carlos is fit, if either Carlos or Konsa would play RB.

I know it sounds strange on paper, but Emery did almost exactly this at Villerreal, Foyth (who is a CB) played RB in the base 442.

However, he wasnt actually a "RB", as in attack Emery liked his left back to get forward, then the 3 remaining defenders moved left to create a back 3, this is why Foyth "on paper" played at RB for Villerreal, as when attacking Foyth then became the outside right CB of the 3.

for example....

in base formation:

 

Going Forward:

 

it does look strange, but this is exactly how Emery set up Villerreal, with a defensive centre back, capable of playing RB defensively, but in attack it becomes a back 3 and the RB becomes an outside CB.

 

Maybe im barking up the wrong tree, but it has crossed my mind a few times now maybe im looking too much in to what Emery did at Villerreal.

 

Good post, Ma. Interesting.

[burchy]

6 hours ago, MaVilla said:

you know what, i was gonna post something similar.

I wondered if when Carlos is fit, if either Carlos or Konsa would play RB.

I know it sounds strange on paper, but Emery did almost exactly this at Villerreal, Foyth (who is a CB) played RB in the base 442.

However, he wasnt actually a "RB", as in attack Emery liked his left back to get forward, then the 3 remaining defenders moved left to create a back 3, this is why Foyth "on paper" played at RB for Villerreal, as when attacking Foyth then became the outside right CB of the 3.

for example....

in base formation:

 

Going Forward:

 

it does look strange, but this is exactly how Emery set up Villerreal, with a defensive centre back, capable of playing RB defensively, but in attack it becomes a back 3 and the RB becomes an outside CB.

 

Maybe im barking up the wrong tree, but it has crossed my mind a few times now maybe im looking too much in to what Emery did at Villerreal.

 

I think the LW position is the key one with it in effect drifting infield when we have the ball. Ramsey is good as a progressive ball carrier but someone like Kamada would excel there. 

I think we’ll end up with a technically strong attacking midfielder there as opposed to a pace merchant like I suggested (Diaby - would still love him here). 

I’m not sure if I’ve seen if Kamada has signed for anyone yet though as he’s a free agent in June I believe. 

[CVByrne]

7 hours ago, MaVilla said:

you know what, i was gonna post something similar.

I wondered if when Carlos is fit, if either Carlos or Konsa would play RB.

I know it sounds strange on paper, but Emery did almost exactly this at Villerreal, Foyth (who is a CB) played RB in the base 442.

However, he wasnt actually a "RB", as in attack Emery liked his left back to get forward, then the 3 remaining defenders moved left to create a back 3, this is why Foyth "on paper" played at RB for Villerreal, as when attacking Foyth then became the outside right CB of the 3.

for example....

in base formation:

 

Going Forward:

 

it does look strange, but this is exactly how Emery set up Villerreal, with a defensive centre back, capable of playing RB defensively, but in attack it becomes a back 3 and the RB becomes an outside CB.

 

Maybe im barking up the wrong tree, but it has crossed my mind a few times now maybe im looking too much in to what Emery did at Villerreal.

 

This is exactly it and the team are balanced. I can also see times when a regular RB is played like Cash who joins the midfield so we've a 2 3 5. It depends on opposition