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Set pieces


turvontour

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I havent been overly impressed with our set pieces for a while now, but the last few matches they've been really poor. We also dont seem to have a designated set piece taker, whether that's for corners, direct free kicks, free kicks from wings etc. At home to West Ham we had 3 different corner takers in the space of 10 minutes, from the same side; Traore, Grealish, McGinn. I cant see that the constant changing of taker benefits us. Would it not be better to stick with someone rather than have 3 or 4 players hit the front man once each game? Targett took that one to Konsa against Sheff U. I wonder has he taken many since?

We had a free kick on the halfway line against Brighton, and Mings, Luiz and Konsa did that thing where they all slowly wander around it leaving it for each other. In the end, Konsa reluctantly had to take it and drilled it chest height to their full back and Sanson brought him down for a booking. Within about 5 seconds of us taking a free kick we had given away one to the other team and picked up a yellow. Felt like it was rushed as someone finally took responsibility. Just an aside on no one wanting to take that free kick, it feels like we are slowing play down a lot in general recently, maybe still feeling the effects of Covid?

Why getting the set pieces right is increasingly important is that, to me atleast, we seem to be going down at slight contact in a lot of instances to win free kicks when we could instead retain possession in decent areas. The free kicks then arent coming to much, in the main.

Edited by turvontour
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Traore started taking set pieces and looked ok but has got worse, Grealish seems to take most of them and isn't great, even Barkley has taken some, but it's a real weakness in our team. Not sure if it's a tactical weakness or just the players we have. Hourihane was the only good free kick taker we had.

Maybe Sanson can take some?
 

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1 hour ago, VillanousOne said:

Traore started taking set pieces and looked ok but has got worse, Grealish seems to take most of them and isn't great, even Barkley has taken some, but it's a real weakness in our team. Not sure if it's a tactical weakness or just the players we have. Hourihane was the only good free kick taker we had.

Maybe Sanson can take some?
 

Yes possibly Sanson.

I would have thought with corners though you dont need to be overly good at them per se. Like I cant name the other 19 corner specialists of the other teams in the league. But I would have thought one player taking all or most corners would increase accuracy, and understanding of those attacking the corners. Maybe just reading too much in to it. Maybe it doesnt matter who takes them. 

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16 minutes ago, Hornso said:

After lockdown and earlier in the season we seemed to have a few different routines which seem to have all gone out the window recently.

Absolutely we seemed much more of a threat from them earlier in the season. The Liverpool one sticks in my mind when Trezeguet peeled off and volleyed back to Watkins. Could just be we're in a bad spell and they'll come again.

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I think the biggest issue is having players equipped to head the ball.

Evan and McNaught and Laursen and Mellberg us to cause problems at corners for us.....West Ham have ably equipped players to score at corners, which change games.

We in contrast are quite shy in the air, so it limits our opportunities to exploit a rich resource.

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12 hours ago, turvontour said:

Yes possibly Sanson.

I would have thought with corners though you dont need to be overly good at them per se. Like I cant name the other 19 corner specialists of the other teams in the league. But I would have thought one player taking all or most corners would increase accuracy, and understanding of those attacking the corners. Maybe just reading too much in to it. Maybe it doesnt matter who takes them. 

You would tend to think, if you have made it through all the obstacles of developing in to a premier league standard player.....most could take a corner......and whats wrong with a bit of after training specialist practice.

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12 hours ago, PaulC said:

Of course we used to have a specialist at these. 

Ye I think Hourihane is good at them but only because he clearly practises them and we stick with him to take them when hes playing. I really think you need rhythm. Like alternating a rugby goal kicker isnt good, or to a lesser extent a batsman not being able to hit or time a ball where he wants for his first few balls. 

We scored 3 goals from set pieces in our first 3 games. 1 or 2 since I think it is?

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We were one of the most teams to have Corners, but without benefitting from it (apart from Sheff Utd and Liverpool). We need to improve in that aspect soon. West Ham and Burnley won against us because of that. 
I think Targett should be handling them, he might be an upgrade to those who are trying now. 

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On 16/02/2021 at 11:47, TRO said:

I think the biggest issue is having players equipped to head the ball.

Evan and McNaught and Laursen and Mellberg us to cause problems at corners for us.....West Ham have ably equipped players to score at corners, which change games.

We in contrast are quite shy in the air, so it limits our opportunities to exploit a rich resource.

We are 4th in the league in terms of aerial duels won. We're not aerially shy.

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Annoys me how few set pieces Mings gets on the end of when we have corners. I get it's a lower level but Mings was Laursen esque in the promotion run in and I fully expected him to score 5 goals a season in prem but can only remember him scoring v Man. United and Southampton this season. Konsa is far more of a threat at set pieces now.

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11 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Annoys me how few set pieces Mings gets on the end of when we have corners. I get it's a lower level but Mings was Laursen esque in the promotion run in and I fully expected him to score 5 goals a season in prem but can only remember him scoring v Man. United and Southampton this season. Konsa is far more of a threat at set pieces now.

Scored vs fulham also this year

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18 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Annoys me how few set pieces Mings gets on the end of when we have corners. I get it's a lower level but Mings was Laursen esque in the promotion run in and I fully expected him to score 5 goals a season in prem but can only remember him scoring v Man. United and Southampton this season. Konsa is far more of a threat at set pieces now.

Traore scored for us v man u this season. Last season mings did score in that 2-2 draw, but that was a shot. I think he also scored a shot this season from a Hourihane free kick v Fulham.

I agree though, Hause, Mings and Konsa could get more of the headers they have on target. We dont seem that good in the air in an attacking sense from set pieces. Not much of the midfield are going to attack aerially either, and equally Watkins isnt that great with headers outside of the six yard box. Hes had a couple of open goal headers from close range. Perhaps that's why we started doing those short corners not too long ago.

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6 hours ago, Laughable Chimp said:

We are 4th in the league in terms of aerial duels won. We're not aerially shy.

Statistics, Damn lies and statistics......

  • When do we win corners and trouble the opposition in the air? Outside Ollie Watkins.
  • When do we win aerial balls in the centre of the park and launch attacks as a result?
  • when do we win headers from throw ins and gain territory?
  • We rarely win headers, we just get our head on them, which a different interpretation.

we do head the ball, when no one challenges, or in close contact.

I am tallking generally of course, not the odd isolated occassion.....and I am talking about the games when need to compete in the air.....some games we don't.

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5 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Annoys me how few set pieces Mings gets on the end of when we have corners. I get it's a lower level but Mings was Laursen esque in the promotion run in and I fully expected him to score 5 goals a season in prem but can only remember him scoring v Man. United and Southampton this season. Konsa is far more of a threat at set pieces now.

I think that is a fair observation, he doesn't seem to pose a threat...too passive, in the opponents box.

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1 minute ago, The Fun Factory said:

We haven't been consistently good at set pieces since Ashley Young was sold to Man U.

However if you look at the stats the proportion of goals scored at set pieces is actually rather surprisingly low.

Most goals in the modern era of football come from counter attacks and/or defence errors.

I imagine this is why many teams (ourselves included) don't seem to spend much time on set pieces, statistically it's more beneficial to work on other things first.

There's something very enjoyable about a good set piece routine though, England had a few the last World Cup that were pretty good.

It's an area we can make gains in I'm sure of that, maybe it's something Smith and Co will look at more going forward, I think they spent a lot of their time pre-season focusing on defensive shape and pressing, and we've seen the benefit, maybe set pieces are a bit further down on the list.

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