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Diving and Acting


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There's basically 3 types of dive. You get the full dives with no contact, the Bamfords of the world, everyone hates these 

You get the going down easily/buying a free kick. Every team will have at least 3 or 4 players doing this. We have a fair few (including Jack). Typically its the flair players that benefit from this and therefore get singled out (Jack, Salah etc), i think most people don't like these ones but generally accept it as it's the game these days 

Then you get the Harry Kanes and Deeneys, players that will wrestle, barge, trip, push, pull etc all day long, and as soon as a defender does it back they scream, fall over and win a free kick every time because there is "contact". I really hate these but mainly because of the refs, they need to judge a foul on the foul and not the reaction. As it is a shoulder to shoulder is deemed perfectly fine one second, then a definite foul the next based soley on whether the player fell over or not

For me, if they could stop the lot of it then I would be more than happy. I remember when I was young being adamant that if the contact doesn't cause you to fall over and you do it's a dive, and if the ref deems that contact to be enough for a foul it should be a free kick to you and then a yellow card to you for diving. This is obviously impossible to apply due to the pace of the game and the fact that only the individual player will know of the contact caused them to fall

Because every team has players in the 2nd category every team can be accused of cheating by bitter opposition fans, generally the 1st and 3rd are the worst (and easiest to stop) and should see far harsher punishments, the 2nd I just don't see how they can change it, so if you can't beat em, join em 

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19 hours ago, weedman said:

There's basically 3 types of dive. You get the full dives with no contact, the Bamfords of the world, everyone hates these 

You get the going down easily/buying a free kick. Every team will have at least 3 or 4 players doing this. We have a fair few (including Jack). Typically its the flair players that benefit from this and therefore get singled out (Jack, Salah etc), i think most people don't like these ones but generally accept it as it's the game these days 

Then you get the Harry Kanes and Deeneys, players that will wrestle, barge, trip, push, pull etc all day long, and as soon as a defender does it back they scream, fall over and win a free kick every time because there is "contact". I really hate these but mainly because of the refs, they need to judge a foul on the foul and not the reaction. As it is a shoulder to shoulder is deemed perfectly fine one second, then a definite foul the next based soley on whether the player fell over or not

For me, if they could stop the lot of it then I would be more than happy. I remember when I was young being adamant that if the contact doesn't cause you to fall over and you do it's a dive, and if the ref deems that contact to be enough for a foul it should be a free kick to you and then a yellow card to you for diving. This is obviously impossible to apply due to the pace of the game and the fact that only the individual player will know of the contact caused them to fall

Because every team has players in the 2nd category every team can be accused of cheating by bitter opposition fans, generally the 1st and 3rd are the worst (and easiest to stop) and should see far harsher punishments, the 2nd I just don't see how they can change it, so if you can't beat em, join em 

Well there are cases where it is clear that the contact didn't cause the player to fall (see Salah winning a penalty vs City). 

That should never, ever be a penalty. 

The punditry should have blasted both him and the ref(s), instead many praised him for making the most out of that situation.

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1 hour ago, WooJung said:

Well there are cases where it is clear that the contact didn't cause the player to fall (see Salah winning a penalty vs City). 

That should never, ever be a penalty. 

The punditry should have blasted both him and the ref(s), instead many praised him for making the most out of that situation.

The problem is the referees and the laws. As it stands referees know when players are making the most of situations, but "by the law" have to give the decisions. Its why 2 players having a bit of a wrestle is let go all the time (see any corner), but as soon as 1 of those players go down they give the fk/pen and VAR will back them up because of "contact" 

Decisions are being given solely on how players react to challenges rather than for the challenges themselves, and until that stops players will continue to go down at the first opportunity because why wouldn't they? 

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It really does your head in all this diving and pathetic yelping! We do have some who do it on occasion but there are teams who clearly spend a lot of time coaching this into their players....(Don't they Solskjaer, Brendan Rogers & co) The worst I have seen individually are Zaha (Palace), Bamford (Leeds) Luiz Suarez (Or lets face it any Liverpool striker),half the Leicester team and Man U clearly coach it into all of their players.

I just watched West Ham diving all game every time a player was close behind them... and 100% of the time they got a FK..Ridiculous.

With us Grealish on occasion goes down too but normally it's only when he feels contact or is actually fouled (which is most of the time), McGinn has a bad habit of going down far too easily often ending up on the floor with the ref having waved play on. Otherwise we are better than most.

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16 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

It really does your head in all this diving and pathetic yelping! We do have some who do it on occasion but there are teams who clearly spend a lot of time coaching this into their players....(Don't they Solskjaer, Brendan Rogers & co) The worst I have seen individually are Zaha (Palace), Bamford (Leeds) Luiz Suarez (Or lets face it any Liverpool striker),half the Leicester team and Man U clearly coach it into all of their players.

I just watched West Ham diving all game every time a player was close behind them... and 100% of the time they got a FK..Ridiculous.

With us Grealish on occasion goes down too but normally it's only when he feels contact or is actually fouled (which is most of the time), McGinn has a bad habit of going down far too easily often ending up on the floor with the ref having waved play on. Otherwise we are better than most.

Trezeguet and Konsa go down easy too.

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I saw that Lebron James ( NBA Basketball ) recently got suspended for " Flopping ". lol

Had no clue what that was, so did some googling, and it seems that is the NBA's version of "diving" for a foul lol.

I never realised they took it so seriously.

Considering it's regular practice in Football.

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3 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I saw that Lebron James ( NBA Basketball ) recently got suspended for " Flopping ". lol

Had no clue what that was, so did some googling, and it seems that is the NBA's version of "diving" for a foul lol.

I never realised they took it so seriously.

Considering it's regular practice in Football.

It's pretty common. Exaggerating contact, throwing the head back or going down easy looking for a charge. Marcus Smart & Chris Paul are probably two of the league's worst offenders. It mostly goes unpunished like football, LeBron only got a warning because it was a first offence. Then it goes to fines, after 6 offences in one season the league can suspend but I doubt it will ever come to that.

 

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From a guy as strong and iconic as LeBron, it's a bit pathetic.

Unfortunately, in football, it's just part of the game now. It'd be nice if the FA addressed it properly but there's no real point in getting annoyed about it because there's nothing you can do.

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I don't really care about it these days. It's part of the game. If the authorities want to do something about it then I'd be in favour, but they won't. So we may as well accept it.

I think there's a marked difference between complete simultation and the kind of diving Jack does on most occasions. Going down to ensure you get a foul is, unfortunately, an absolute necessity these days. You will be much worse off if you don't do it.

Diving to win a foul or get someone sent off when there has been no offence committed is another kettle of fish all together.

 

Both are wrong, but the latter is the far more serious version.

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On 15/02/2021 at 21:57, danceoftheshamen said:

It really does your head in all this diving and pathetic yelping!

i've said for years that they should bring in a rule, where if a ref deems a player has been seriously injured based on his reaction (rolling around screaming in agony) that the ref can enforce the team to sub the player on the basis that he's too injured to continue. would soon put a stop to it. **** it, could even start counting him out like in boxing. sounds ridiculous, but it would work

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I find myself looking at fouls in a completely different way now.If I see contact I expect a foul to be given if the player..... decides to go down.

The game has changed  irrevocably.

Strikers now should go down.

Defenders now should learn how not to make contact.

Fans need to understand that football will never be like the 70s/80s again and stop getting upset about it.

Edited by MarkLillis
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34 minutes ago, MarkLillis said:

I find myself looking at fouls in a completely different way now.If I see contact I expect a foul to be given if the player..... decides to go down.

The game has changed  irrevocably.

Strikers now should go down.

Defenders now should learn how not to make contact.

Fans need to understand that football will never be like the 70s/80s again and stop getting upset about it.

exactly. it's been proven countless times that players who don't go down, don't get the pens. no it's not ideal, but it's the way things are now

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Hmmn, i have to disagree with the comment about accepting certain types of diving. It ruins the game for me. It would not be difficult to check if there is no or next to no contact . Just watch re-runs of Zaha or Bamfords performances against us earlier this season to see how easy it is to spot on a replay. Clearly there was no contact at all in those instances and for me if a free kick is awarded/card issued/penalty awarded this is a glaring example of where VAR should intervene and any free kick/card or penalty should be revoked and the offending cheat carded. This would soon stop it and massively improve the game too.

Of course if there is contact then they should leave it with the onfield Refs original decision.

The only downside is the dodgy VAR people would inevitably give these decisions to the usual clubs and not others thus providing yet another option for result manipulation.... But then they do that anyway with these incidents so nothing really changes there..

For example currently if Pogba dives it's a Pen to Utd whilst if Grealish dives any pen would be reviewed and reversed. 

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Grealish does dive, almost every game. I get embarrassed now when fellow villa fans claim he doesn't cos he doesn't half throw himself at the turf during matches, but he does also get legitimately fouled and kicked around.

I think the problem is that getting an advantage for something typically/subconsciously seen as a masculine thing to do (nasty tackle, wrestling, shoulder barging etc.) is seen as okay by the British audience but that can give just as much of an advantage as diving. Swings and roundabouts really, just one looks aggressive and one makes you look weak. 

I also disagree with the notion that diving ruins the game, millions of people say it and then continue to watch and enjoy football weekly. It's been going on since the sport was invented, it's a competitive environment and some people on the pitch will win at any cost. If it ruined the game there would be a lot less people watching. Same goes for VAR, it adds to the drama it doesn't stop people watching. 

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10 minutes ago, skarroki said:

Grealish does dive, almost every game. I get embarrassed now when fellow villa fans claim he doesn't cos he doesn't half throw himself at the turf during matches, but he does also get legitimately fouled and kicked around.

 

Could you please give 3 examples of Grealish diving this season?

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Diving has spoilt the game and the fact that many except it as being part the modern game is worrying because its condoning cheating. If you cheat in football then you cheat in other aspects of life. So where does it end. 

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It's always been part of the game but with the fact that every second of every game is now recorded coupled with HD technology and social media, every "dive" can be seen and analysed and sent around the world within 30 secs of it happening. It's happening just as much it's just it receives a lot more exposure and corresponding outrage these days.

In the old days when watching a match (I've seen footage, not live), it was difficult to make out who even had the ball, let alone if they dived or not. It was a grainy shot with a camera that is nothing compared to the cameras of today. Let them do it. Every team does it. It's just a part of the game. Nothing to do with modern players being diving cheats no more than the players in the old days were.

It developed as a way for the best players to avoid getting sent to hospital during a football match and now everyone does it. Some do it to avoid injury from the reducer that's coming their way and others to con a free or whatever. There's a ref there that's meant to be controlling what goes on on the pitch. The players will probably receive as many frees in a game for diving as they will have decisions go against them when they are fouled so f*** it. It just evens it up.

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1 hour ago, Mic09 said:

Could you please give 3 examples of Grealish diving this season?

Was the one where he did a Fernandes and trod on the defender's foot in the box this season?  Also when he went down in a heap against West Ham a few seconds late.  I can't think of a third off the top of my head.  He usually times it better when a defender is challenging him.

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