Zatman Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 We dominated United in midfield today best midfielder they had was Mike Dean 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 6 hours ago, Zatman said: We dominated United in midfield today best midfielder they had was Mike Dean You could see his little brain working overtime and the smoke coming out of his ears when The Sabre Toothed Diving Knobend missed. "Encroachment? No CR7 was first, maybe the keeper dived off his line ? No damn it, ah balls. You should have let Ronaldo take it." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 6 hours ago, Zatman said: We dominated United in midfield today best midfielder they had was Mike Dean Shocking tactics from Ole though, to play 2 holding midfielders as easy targets from our McGinn and Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 11 hours ago, MrBlack said: If McGinn and Luiz had shown the form they are showing this season, for most of the back end of last season, I wouldn't have been worried about a "missing" DM. Not to mention the step up Ramsey has made. The 3 we have got at the moment is working wonders, complementing each other well, and they've all made a big step up in performance levels. Long may it continue. Love that Buendia and Sanson could easily come in and I wouldn't feel like our midfield is any weaker. Even Nakamba wouldn't fill me with fear! 7 hours ago, TomC said: I worry about them getting tired after New Year's again. We're doing to need Sanson and Nakamba when the fixture list gets busy around Christmas so they stay fresh. Hopefully we don't have a covid outbreak at the club again like around the new year mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 10 hours ago, Sulberto21 said: Hopefully we don't have a covid outbreak at the club again like around the new year mark. 18 hours ago, TomC said: I worry about them getting tired after New Year's again. We're doing to need Sanson and Nakamba when the fixture list gets busy around Christmas so they stay fresh. Sanson is definitely capable of slotting in and replacing any of them I think... but if he can't get fit it doesn't help us. Nakamba looks a fair bit better this season so far, and I do have faith he'll continue to improve. He has the right attitude and, even if he doesn't improve, he's a reliable destroyer. Buendia also not having really featured so far gives us the options to rotate and cope better with injuries, prevent fatigue, and have a plan B. Valid concerns, but we're way better placed to cope with them this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 I think the midfield has improved dramatically.....maybe 3-5-2 has helped or the new coaches, or both. John McGinn....has uped his game and looks fitter JJ is just developing, but adding power to his game Douglas is playing his best football since he joined us, his passing is sublime. Matty has always been a wing-back as opposed to a traditional full back, and is wallowing in that role, looks dangerous. Subtle changes ,but maximum returns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, TRO said: I think the midfield has improved dramatically.....maybe 3-5-2 has helped or the new coaches, or both. John McGinn....has uped his game and looks fitter JJ is just developing, but adding power to his game Douglas is playing his best football since he joined us, his passing is sublime. Matty has always been a wing-back as opposed to a traditional full back, and is wallowing in that role, looks dangerous. Subtle changes ,but maximum returns. Agree, do you think young should come in for Targett? Can't help thinking that if he really clicked offensively, we could blow the bottom half of the table away. MT was rightfully our POTS last year and should still play his fair share too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted September 27, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, TRO said: I think the midfield has improved dramatically.....maybe 3-5-2 has helped or the new coaches, or both. John McGinn....has uped his game and looks fitter JJ is just developing, but adding power to his game Douglas is playing his best football since he joined us, his passing is sublime. Matty has always been a wing-back as opposed to a traditional full back, and is wallowing in that role, looks dangerous. Subtle changes ,but maximum returns. I think it might be more fundamental than that. Three at the back has reduced the defensive workload on the midfielders, freeing them to do what they are good at. I don't think the midfielders are better since we've switched to 3-5-2, I just think their defensive frailties are no longer as prominent, and the rest of their game is highlighted. I mentioned in one of the pre-match threads that I could see 3-5-2 working for us given the lack of a DM signing in the summer. Just makes sense to me. Obviously then there is a selection headache at the other end, but that's a different story. Not sure how Bailey and Buendia fit into this system if I'm honest, and I love both of those guys. We'll see. Maybe it will be horses for courses. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 People still think we didn’t need to sort the midfield out in the summer? Thought not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chine Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 The only thing the midfield did really well tonight was pass the ball straight to the opposition , first half they were bullied out of the game and didn’t look like they wanted it , after the formation change (thank McGrath!!) they were allowed more time on the ball and still managed to pass it away consistently! ,absolutely awful midfield display but definitely got better when Ramsey came on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 Few cracks starting to appear now. We all knew we needed a central midfielder un the Summer but it looks as though we spent all that money on Ings. Buendia isn’t a 10 and the answer to our issues in midfield. Sanson needs to come good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted October 31, 2021 Author Share Posted October 31, 2021 I remember starting this thread back in February. We had a transfer window to rectify it and we got it horribly wrong. I still think we’re too good to go down but not signing a central midfielder, or even two, in the summer was criminal mismanagement. The Ings transfer wasn’t needed and we spent less on players than we got from selling Grealish. We failed to prepare properly for the season and now it’s coming back to bite us. I think we have enough to stay up, but we certainly won’t finish higher than 11th with our midfield options. Really frustrating. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 53 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: I remember starting this thread back in February. We had a transfer window to rectify it and we got it horribly wrong. I still think we’re too good to go down but not signing a central midfielder, or even two, in the summer was criminal mismanagement. The Ings transfer wasn’t needed and we spent less on players than we got from selling Grealish. We failed to prepare properly for the season and now it’s coming back to bite us. I think we have enough to stay up, but we certainly won’t finish higher than 11th with our midfield options. Really frustrating. Totally agree with everything you’ve said. Smith has never addressed it and it’s his biggest failing. Whoever is in charge in January must sign at least one and maybe even two decent central midfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Can we recall Conor or is it too late? Better option than Young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, Zatman said: Can we recall Conor or is it too late? Better option than Young Of all the people to step up and get us out of a bind, Conor Hourihane has to be one of the worst suggestions ever, sorry mate 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, lexicon said: Of all the people to step up and get us out of a bind, Conor Hourihane has to be one of the worst suggestions ever, sorry mate I was looking for somebody to make up the numbers instead of starting Young there 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted November 1, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 1, 2021 I think we have two options on midfield shape. Either this one: -------------------xxxxxxxx------------------ -----xxxxxxxx--------------xxxxxxxx--- Where the holding midfielder plays in a limited defensive role, taking the ball off the back four and passing it forward when we have possession, providing a deep option where attacks break down and we need to play the ball backward and crucially holding in front of the back four and stopping teams running at them. The two number eights in this formation then have licence to go forward but also need to be able to work on pressing the ball, winning it and getting it to players in forward roles. Or this one: -------xxxxxxxx--------xxxxxxxxx----- -----------------xxxxxxxxxx--------------- Where with two holding players, the emphasis is on their work without the ball and on control of the game, they don't have the responsibility for developing play any further than taking it from the back four and getting it to the ten or wide and when we go forward they need to maintain position in the middle of the park. Press and pass. The number ten in this formation is then freed of a great deal of the work and can concentrate on making play, supporting the forward and drifting into areas where he can hurt defences. For depth of players that can do these roles we look like this: Option 1. -------------------Luiz/Nakamba/Sanson/Iroegbanum------------------ -----------McGinn/Sanson---------------Luiz/Young/J Ramsey------- So there are decent numbers, in terms of options - but lots of questions on quality - for me the only two players there who have the ability right now to be regular Premier League starters in top half teams are Luiz and McGinn. There are seven players named, but Sanson seems to not have settled, Jacob Ramsey is still developing and is now out for six weeks, Young is an emergency option only, Nakamba isn't quite good enough and Iroegbunam is still on his L plates. In reality in terms of strength, it's: -------------------Luiz------------------ -----McGinn---------xxxxxxxx--- I think that's the midfield we wanted - with Ward-Prowse in the missing position - it's the midfield we play most often and we're a man short. On top of that, neither Luiz or McGinn is a physically dominant player, so we're a man and an attribute short. Option 2. -------McGinn/Sanson/Luiz--------J Ramsey/Iroegbanum/Young----- ------------------Buendia/Chukwuemeka/A Ramsey/McGinn--------------- Again, loads of bodies, but the second row is full of question marks - outside of Luiz and McGinn no one there has the experience or the physicality to play there, none of them are the physical presence we need and even with McGinn there's a sense that his game lacks the positional discipline for us to have control - our best two by a mile are McGinn and Luiz, but I don't think a McGinn/Luiz central midfield is disciplined or physical enough to control a game and allow us to use a playmaker. With the second line struggling there's too much pressure on the ten to do actual work - Buendia and Chukwuemeka have the ability to make things happen but without a stronger platform behind them, they're going to be asked to do lots of defensive work and pressing that they're not good at. McGinn could be useful as a bustling ten, with two behind him and that's what we tried against West Ham, but without Luiz and with Nakamba's limitations on the ball, there simply isn't enough strength to let him get forward enough - he can do a lot of the work that our weakness in the middle requires of a number ten, but without him in midfield there's even more work for the ten to do and a whole lot less chance to make play. In reality in terms of strength, it's: -------McGinn/Luiz--------xxxxxxxxx----- ---------Buendia/Chukwuemeka--------- Where again, we're a man short of being able to play the way we'd like to. It's a mess, and what's more, with Ramsey out for six weeks, Luiz out for reasons that haven't been defined, Sanson out of favour and McGinn on the edge of a suspension, it's a mess that could quickly become a disaster. If Sanson isn't part of our future, we need two and we need them quickly - January quickly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 I really, really disagree about McGinn, OBE - I just don't see how you can argue that he's good enough for a top half team. I don't see it in his performances and I can't find any data analysis to help me understand what I'm supposed to be missing either. He was superb in the Championship and besides a few memorable flashes in the prem, he's looked way off the required quality. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 I think we can all agree the answer is not McgInn-Nakamba-Young. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted November 1, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 1, 2021 Just now, The Fun Factory said: I think we can all agree the answer is not McgInn-Nakamba-Young. Absolutely - horribly though that might be all that's available. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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