The Midfield Three

[useless]

Not sure why West Ham are being used as relative paradigm of excellence, they're only six points ahead of us having played two games more, come the end of the season I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're below us in the table.

For some games it might help us if we adjust the midfield, but the midfield as it is has got us this far so it's not as if the current set up is doing a bad job, so not sure why people are talking of us needing to do this and that as if it's a matter of urgency. The last thing we need to do is to keep chopping and changing every time we fail to win a game.

[TRO]

39 minutes ago, useless said:

Not sure why West Ham are being used as relative paradigm of excellence, they're only six points ahead of us having played two games more, come the end of the season I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're below us in the table.

For some games it might help us if we adjust the midfield, but the midfield as it is has got us this far so it's not as if the current set up is doing a bad job, so not sure why people are talking of us needing to do this and that as if it's a matter of urgency. The last thing we need to do is to keep chopping and changing every time we fail to win a game.

Its not West Ham's league position, its the way they play and the rounded way they approach all types and styles of opposition.....its their form thats impressive and if you watch them play, its the way they dominate teams, particularly in areas of the pitch that render hurt....corners are just one example.

in contrast, we have had some great games, but against certain types of opposition like them,, we clearly struggle and we do not show the same kind of dominance....we can't win every game, but we can make a better fist of the ones we struggle in.

its not about losing games, that is inevitable.....the issue is, how we lose, its the manner of some of those defeats, that is concerning some of us.

if you study the games in which we have managed to secure a clean sheet, there appears to be small evidence of an issue, if you study the games, where we have not, there is a clear distinction of room for improvement, particularly in midfield.

if you look at our overall, there is not much to be troubled with, if you look in part, there is.....our good games are masking a problem that could grow, rarely do teams stand still....we are either, moving forward or slipping backward.

as they say....."a stitch in time saves nine"

Edited February 16, 2021 by TRO

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

I genuinely think Firminho works harder than Barkley.

Also, on Pool, whilst Thiago is undoubtedly a brilliant player, alot of people are now thinking he doesn't suit their system and has actually affected their performances/style of play.

Could it be that, Barkley is a great player, but just doesn't suit us?

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, useless said:

Not sure why West Ham are being used as relative paradigm of excellence, they're only six points ahead of us having played two games more, come the end of the season I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're below us in the table.

For some games it might help us if we adjust the midfield, but the midfield as it is has got us this far so it's not as if the current set up is doing a bad job, so not sure why people are talking of us needing to do this and that as if it's a matter of urgency. The last thing we need to do is to keep chopping and changing every time we fail to win a game.

Unless we win those 2 games, they are STILL 6 points ahead of us to be fair.

They have a deep squad as well.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, useless said:

Not sure why West Ham are being used as relative paradigm of excellence, they're only six points ahead of us having played two games more, come the end of the season I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're below us in the table.

For some games it might help us if we adjust the midfield, but the midfield as it is has got us this far so it's not as if the current set up is doing a bad job, so not sure why people are talking of us needing to do this and that as if it's a matter of urgency. The last thing we need to do is to keep chopping and changing every time we fail to win a game.

I’d say West Ham are at least 5 years ahead of us in terms of their progression as a Premier League club. Whilst they may be overachieving this season they have spent a lot of money over the years and really should be challenging the top 6 every season. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Vive_La_Villa

[useless]

We don't have to win those to specific games in hand in order to catch them, we could win one draw one, or draw them both, and still have plenty of scope to catch them between now and the end of the season,. Also their squad depth is overrated, when people talk about it they refer to players who've done less than some of our back up players.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I’d say West Ham are at least 5 years ahead of us in terms of their progression as a Premier League club. Whilst they may be overachieving this season they have spent a lot of money over the years and really should be challenging the top 6 every season. 

You could probably even argue that they have been underachieving based on spend/squad, and are now beginning to level out/gel.

[MaVilla]

58 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its not West Ham's league position, its the way they play and the rounded way they approach all types and styles of opposition.....its their form thats impressive and if you watch them play, its the way they dominate teams, particularly in areas of the pitch that render hurt....corners are just one example.

in contrast, we have had some great games, but against certain types of opposition like them,, we clearly struggle and we do not show the same kind of dominance....we can't win every game, but we can make a better fist of the ones we struggle in.

its not about losing games, that is inevitable.....the issue is, how we lose, its the manner of some of those defeats, that is concerning some of us.

if you study the games in which we have managed to secure a clean sheet, there appears to be small evidence of an issue, if you study the games, where we have not, there is a clear distinction of room for improvement, particularly in midfield.

if you look at our overall, there is not much to be troubled with, if you look in part, there is.....our good games are masking a problem that could grow, rarely do teams stand still....we are either, moving forward or slipping backward.

as they say....."a stitch in time saves nine"

West Ham look very well balanced now, with Rice & Soucek in the middle, and players like Bowen, Fornals, Benrahma, Lanzini, Yarmolenko, Antonio as more attacking outlets etc.

honestly though, i think the only real difference between us and them is the no 6 position quality/solidity, although that "only" difference is huge tbh.

[useless]

Just because West Ham have spent a lot of money that doesn't mean that they're 'five years ahead of us of their progression as a Premier League club' that's just dumb. The point is that they haven't been much better than us this season, so no reason why we should stop what we're doing and copy them, what happens when that stops working, copy the next team that's showing a bit form. All I can say is that I'm glad its Dean Smith managing the team and not the people on this forum.

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Its not West Ham's league position, its the way they play and the rounded way they approach all types and styles of opposition.....its their form thats impressive and if you watch them play, its the way they dominate teams, particularly in areas of the pitch that render hurt....corners are just one example.

in contrast, we have had some great games, but against certain types of opposition like them,, we clearly struggle and we do not show the same kind of dominance....we can't win every game, but we can make a better fist of the ones we struggle in.

its not about losing games, that is inevitable.....the issue is, how we lose, its the manner of some of those defeats, that is concerning some of us.

if you study the games in which we have managed to secure a clean sheet, there appears to be small evidence of an issue, if you study the games, where we have not, there is a clear distinction of room for improvement, particularly in midfield.

if you look at our overall, there is not much to be troubled with, if you look in part, there is.....our good games are masking a problem that could grow, rarely do teams stand still....we are either, moving forward or slipping backward.

as they say....."a stitch in time saves nine"

You can count on 1 hand the amount of games we didn't "make a fist" in games we've lost. There were many games we lost that we didn't deserve to lose on the balance of the performances (where we were dominating the opposition) but I seem to remember the results being more concerning to you at the time. Now we've had a couple of shaky performances and suddenly we need to be more dominant in the games we lose. Methinks you're just nitpicking, because as you say if you look at the overall picture, there is no issue. We've taken 10 steps forward this season (technically 9 if you're counting).

[useless]

Just looking at West Ham's results, they haven't got a very good record against the divisons better teams, the highest placed team that they've beat is Leicester, after that it's Everton and us, they haven't beat any of the traditional top six either, added to that they've played all of Albion, Fulham, and Sheffield United twice. Their next nine fixtures are Spurs, Man City, Leeds, Man Utd, Arsenal, Wolves, Leicester, Newcastle, and Chelsea, lets see where they are after those, and if people are still holding them up as an example to be copied.

[KentVillan]

West Ham are a flavour of the month team, just like we were earlier in the season. People have short memories.

[useless]

It's not that West Ham aren't doing well, they're having a good season, but they're not doing that much better than us that we should abandon what we're doing and aspire to play like them, it would maybe make a little sense if we were struggling near the bottom of the table, but not when we're having a very similar season to them, and have played two games less, and unlike them have only played the bottom three once versus their having played them twice.

If we're going to pick a team to emulate at least let it be one that's achieved something and not a team that isn't doing much better than us this season, and was in a relegation battle with us last season.

[Vive_La_Villa]

So last year it was I wish we could be more like Sheffield United and this season I wish we could be more one West Ham.  Let’s see how both teams finish the season. 

[Teale's 'tache]

I understand why Smith wants to keep Barkley further forward, he wants to have somebody close to Jack and Ollie to help them out, give the opposition something else to worry about. It just seems the way we are setting up to accommodate this at the moment leaves us short handed in midfield and doesn't really play in to McGinn and Luiz's strengths and so we are getting less out of them. We are sacrificing a lot to have Barkley in that position, so if he doesn't perform it really causes us issues. We seemed much more balanced earlier in the season playing with two 8's, McGinn could press further forward and Luiz had more room to do his stuff.

I like Barkley, and when him Jack and Ollie were all fit and firing earlier in the season we were really difficult to handle, but since the injury he hasn't hit those levels and it's hurting us at the moment performance wise.

[Vive_La_Villa]

55 minutes ago, useless said:

Just looking at West Ham's results, they haven't got a very good record against the divisons better teams, the highest placed team that they've beat is Leicester, after that it's Everton and us, they haven't beat any of the traditional top six either, added to that they've played all of Albion, Fulham, and Sheffield United twice. Their next nine fixtures are Spurs, Man City, Leeds, Man Utd, Arsenal, Wolves, Leicester, Newcastle, and Chelsea, lets see where they are after those, and if people are still holding them up as an example to be copied.

The Moyes posters will soon come down. As did the Wilder posters. 

[useless]

I haven't noticed any Moyes posters, he doesn't seem to be getting much praise for West Ham's good form for whatever reason, unlike with Wilder last season who was getting a lot of plaudits for Sheffield United doing well, there's was actually quite a few calls for him to replace Smith.

[Kiwivillan]

1 hour ago, useless said:

Just because West Ham have spent a lot of money that doesn't mean that they're 'five years ahead of us of their progression as a Premier League club' that's just dumb. The point is that they haven't been much better than us this season, so no reason why we should stop what we're doing and copy them, what happens when that stops working, copy the next team that's showing a bit form. All I can say is that I'm glad its Dean Smith managing the team and not the people on this forum.

DOL was right

[useless]

DOL was cool, he's always been cool.

[Vive_La_Villa]

18 minutes ago, useless said:

I haven't noticed any Moyes posters, he doesn't seem to be getting much praise for West Ham's good form for whatever reason, unlike with Wilder last season who was getting a lot of plaudits for Sheffield United doing well, there's was actually quite a few calls for him to replace Smith.

That’s true. It’s difficult to give a manager like Moyes credit.  Goes against the dinosaur narrative. He’s doing a good job to be fair to him. Has made West Ham very hard to beat which I guess is his trademark.