The Midfield Three

[OxfordVillan]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

He was.

I hear the line that tackling has gone, we don't do that anymore....that's down to interpretation, sure its hard to see a Harris,Hunter or Smith surviving in the modern game.....but someone has to win the ball, hook or by crook.

Petrov was not a prolific tackler, but he did it by his reading of the game and nicking it in transition.

I am not suggesting cloggers, never have, but we do have to win the ball back better than we do, to have a chance to start winning games.

Ps How Ollie survives in this team right now, I will never know....He is a diamond geezer.

If only the coaching staff would sit Ross in the video room and just keep showing him footage of Ollie Watkins and his work rate. “Ross, we just need you to show half the work rate of this guy”. 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, OxfordVillan said:

If only the coaching staff would sit Ross in the video room and just keep showing him footage of Ollie Watkins and his work rate. “Ross, we just need you to show half the work rate of this guy”. 

There would be a pool of wee on the floor and trembling hands.

Look, Barkley is better than this, something is clearly wrong with him, don't want to speculate, but its not right, this is not the player we first thought.....but as for buying him, No, not for me.....Its almost like another Ross in the making...and we was glad to see the back of that too.

I am a total advocate of Talent......but they have to work hard for me, to be happy.

[TRO]

40 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I think actually we’re all agreed that the shape is the problem, but apportioning the blame to different players is the disagreement.

My view is that Luiz is the least to blame of the people who’ve been singled out for the Maddison goal, because he’s been given an impossible task on that play.

I was really talking about his play in general as opposed to just that one incident.

I respectfully disagree....he is to yet win me over, playing in that role, but hey ho.

It will be interesting to see who he nullifys on Saturday against Leeds.

Edited February 24, 2021 by TRO

[sparrow1988]

This is how our midfield should deal with breakaways really.

 

[Mjvilla]

10 hours ago, Bazmonkey said:

 

Luiz did make the correct decision.

I see where you are coming from....so in that situation i would have gone to Tielemens too.

What makes it look bad is he effectively commits himself which allows Tielemens to pass over it him. BUT it only happens because the shape and positions of other players make it look like it does.

I agree CDM's should go wide...however...they shouldnt be behind any of the defenders in a defensive situation...going forward yes...as you get overlaps from the full backs....but when defending...CDM's should alwayd be in front of the back line...especially in this situation with the ball in the opposition half.

If you're going to play full backs and allow them freedom to get forward then you have to accept sometimes that they will get caught upfield. Otherwise, your back 4 will be rigidly stuck in position and you will lose options in attack.

Teams at this level counter attack so quickly that you need to be fluid in the way you defend. You can't say 'the CDM stays central to mark', that's just not going to happen. 

The CDM will have to cover in those circumstances that the full back is caught high. The problem in this instance, is that the LB and another central midfielder, along with the left winger are caught too high up the pitch on the left. That's where the inquest should begin. Why are they all so high? 

If this is the case, and you have 3 people caught to high, then you should be able to rely on the third central midfielder (Barkley in this case) to sniff the danger and drop in. Which he doesn't. It's all hand on deck to 'get back in'. But it's not acted out that way. 

The danger, for Douglas Luiz, is the man with the ball. (Tielemans) if he doesn't close him, tielemans has a free run down the wing unchallenged. He does close him (right thing to do) and he should be able to rely on one of his teammates to drop in and help out by dropping on Maddison. Barkley doesn't see it (wrong thing to do). 

There were a lot of faults in this goal, the stills earlier in the thread showed it too well. Being caught too high, not tracking back, not closing the shot down. But I don't see the CDM done much wrong here.

 

[jimmygreaves]

22 hours ago, TRO said:

Look, Barkley is better than this....

And there's the crux of the Barkley debate.... he really isn't better than this.

This is as good as it gets, maybe one good performance in 10. He won't turn up against better opposition, he won't work hard, he won't get better. 

His time at Villa is almost perfectly reflecting his entire career. Good in flashes in the early days then a whole lot of meh....

For the sake of Villa I hope something changes and we see this mythical Ross Barkley some people are clinging to but I very much doubt we will.

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by jimmygreaves

[KentVillan]

I think that might be right @jimmygreaves - it's a shame because he has talent, but he's reached a point in his career where unrealised potential and occasional moments of brilliance don't really cut it anymore.

[avfc1982am]

4 hours ago, jimmygreaves said:

And there's the crux of the Barkley debate.... he really isn't better than this.

This is as good as it gets, maybe one good performance in 10. He won't turn up against better opposition, he won't work hard, he won't get better. 

His time at Villa is almost perfectly reflecting his entire career. Good in flashes in the early days then a whole lot of meh....

For the sake of Villa I hope something changes and we see this mythical Ross Barkley some people are clinging to but I very much doubt we will.

 

 

[TRO]

On 25/02/2021 at 00:53, jimmygreaves said:

And there's the crux of the Barkley debate.... he really isn't better than this.

This is as good as it gets, maybe one good performance in 10. He won't turn up against better opposition, he won't work hard, he won't get better. 

His time at Villa is almost perfectly reflecting his entire career. Good in flashes in the early days then a whole lot of meh....

For the sake of Villa I hope something changes and we see this mythical Ross Barkley some people are clinging to but I very much doubt we will.

 

to be fair, many of us like me, was basing our judgement on his early performances.....now, we must have others in the villa park staff, who thought he was special too, because they said so and brought him in on on lucrative wages.

so something don't quite stack up.

by the looks of things so far, it looks like we have been duped again.

[M_Afro]

I have thought about this a lot recently. We are definitely not getting the balance right. I am starting to think that the players are also just not good enough. McGinn and Luiz are great when they are in form but they are way too inconsistent. Luiz is still young and will improve but McGinn is probably not going to get better. I am happy for him to be a squad player but Dean must overcome his obsession with starting him every week come what may.

Marvellous is similar. He adds a bit of balance to the midfield and I would continue to play him at the moment but he is just not a top half premier league player. Again a useful squad player but no more.

Ramsey has potential and lots of time to improve but he is not a starter yet.

I can’t really comment on Sanson because we just haven’t seen him enough.

Until we improve the quality here and can dominate games from midfield we will never have real consistency at this level. We are too reliant on an excellent back five and Jack to get us wins. 

[Delphinho123]

Still a real issue. It’s anyone’s guess as to who our best midfield three are. 

[villalad21]

As of right now.

---------Nakamba----------

--------Sanson--Luiz-------

For me.

 

[kurtsimonw]

Depends on the opposition.

Ramsey, Nakamba and McGinn were superb against Leeds, but madness that same midfield 3 started against a completely different opposition with an entirely different way of playing.

[Bazmonkey]

The problem is in the title...three.

We play three and three out and out attackers...very rigid attackers.

Other teams play with 4 or 5 but play as a unit both in defence and attack.

I think playing traore and el ghazi at the same time is too luxurious as our three in midfield are not good enough to play as a three...we look sparce in the middle and teams exploit this with ease

[villalad21]

6 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

Depends on the opposition.

Ramsey, Nakamba and McGinn were superb against Leeds, but madness that same midfield 3 started against a completely different opposition with an entirely different way of playing.

We can't change the midfield every game.

You need a settled midfield. One of the key ingridient to successful teams.

[birdman]

Luiz is clearly our best and most consistent player in the middle I think. Its only up until recently he has seemed jaded. For Wolves, its time to bring him back along with Barkley and perhaps Nakamba again. Rest Meatball. 

[lexicon]

The three today were far too compact - felt like they were standing right next to each other half the time. I think we'd be be better off with 2 covering the defensive duties and one just free with the license to get forward. Especially when you consider that McGinn cost us the goal tonight. 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

McGinn also very nearly cost us a second goal too, however he tracked back well and made a block to retrieve the ball.

 

[kurtsimonw]

29 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We can't change the midfield every game.

You need a settled midfield. One of the key ingridient to successful teams.

Not true at all.

Look at Liverpool and City of the last few years. They play the lineup to give them the best tactical edge. It often requires a couple of changes week to week. I'm not suggesting we change the entire midfield every game.

[PaulC]

I really don't know what the best combination is anymore, I think you could throw a blanket over all of them. We played good football early season and pre-covid break but something has changed and we have become too one dimensional.