fruitvilla Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, fruitvilla said: I tend to go to where the evidence leads me. Each to his own I suppose. 53 minutes ago, A'Villan said: As do I. Evidence does not amount to proof though. I tend to read a lot of stuff on this forum that I philosophically disagree with, so here is an opportunity to discuss the philosophical aspects of how we come to our positions. In the US Politics thread, A'Villan said that evidence does not amount to proof. Philosophically I have to agree, using inductive logic will never lead to proof. But at some point we could amount sufficient evidence as to holding a certain position as true or false [insert conspiracy theory de jour, here]. For me the only logical position is to be agnostic (philosophically) and carefully move forwards being prepared to admit that I am wrong. To be fair that only rarely happens. But this thread is generally for philosophical aspects of any position we may hold. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) So where does the fandom and football bit come in? Edited February 4, 2021 by mjmooney 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 Well I was thinking of the duality Mings being brilliant and sh!te at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, mjmooney said: So where does the fandom and football bit come in? I think you will find the goal was offside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I was thinking this was going to be more along the lines of “why do some teams attract football fans of a certain political persuasion and and others the polar opposite” (like St Pauli fans vs Lazio fans for instance). If this message board is anything to go by Aston Villa fans seem to be drawn from the political ‘left’. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I was thinking this was going to be more along the lines of “why do some teams attract football fans of a certain political persuasion and and others the polar opposite” (like St Pauli fans vs Lazio fans for instance). If this message board is anything to go by Aston Villa fans seem to be drawn from the political ‘left’. Quote "Only boneheads entertain serious doubts nowadays about the link between social and economic conditions and football violence, but why is it that, say, Birmingham City fans have a markedly worse reputation than Sunderland fans? Even if we accept, for the sake of argument, that the West Midlands suffers from the same kind of social and economic deprivation that plagues the North-East, then how does one explain the impeccable behaviour of the Villa supporters?" (Nick Hornby, "Fever Pitch", 1992) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted February 4, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, LondonLax said: If this message board is anything to go by Aston Villa fans seem to be drawn from the political ‘left’. VT is absolutely not a barometer of Villa fans politics 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Yes well this is kind of what I am getting at. How a set of fans gain a philosophical ‘identity’ and how that becomes ingrained, even in the modern world of global fan bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I was thinking this was going to be more along the lines of “why do some teams attract football fans of a certain political persuasion and and others the polar opposite” (like St Pauli fans vs Lazio fans for instance). If this message board is anything to go by Aston Villa fans seem to be drawn from the political ‘left’. Well my intention was not to exclude such deliberations ... Rangers and Celtic comes to mind: the religious split. But I doubt their fans are significantly practicing Christians, so what draws them to their respective bases ... history? I'll pick on Mings again ... in the nicest of ways. It has been said that he makes poor choices. I happen to disagree (in the vernacular), but what is the nature of choice? Edited February 4, 2021 by fruitvilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, bickster said: VT is absolutely not a barometer of Villa fans politics I'm sure it isn't, and specifically Off Topic isn't. Seems like when very occasionally there will be something politics-adjacent in On Topic, the regulars up there have a rather less leftie outlook. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business. Capitalism and democracy are not synonymous, just as a monarchy and democracy are not synonymous. It's the rich, telling the middle class, to blame the poor. Tradition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, A'Villan said: We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business. Capitalism and democracy are not synonymous, just as a monarchy and democracy are not synonymous. It's the rich, telling the middle class, to blame the poor. Tradition. Can you show your working please? While you could visit Canada quite easily you would have to jump through a few hoops to live here. It was easy for me through an accident of birth. Ideologies abound. Seeing the world through the lens of corporations is an ideology itself. Your post contradicts itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: Can you show your working please? While you could visit Canada quite easily you would have to jump through a few hoops to live here. It was easy for me through an accident of birth. Ideologies abound. Seeing the world through the lens of corporations is an ideology itself. Your post contradicts itself. What? Get rich or die trying as the be all and end all of philosophical and cultural nature? If that's the case keep your silver I'll take the lead. It's just a quote from a movie that's played as an intro to a song I like, but I think it rings true. The Poverty of Philosophy is another good track by that artist. Edit: I'm not entirely sure I'm understanding this post as it's intended. Care to rephrase for me, so I might better answer your question? Edited February 4, 2021 by A'Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 4, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 4, 2021 24 minutes ago, A'Villan said: We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business. Capitalism and democracy are not synonymous, I'm really not sure it's Corporations, if that were the case, Brexit wouldn't have happened. Big corporations didn't want Brext. Disaster capitalists and hedgefunds wanted that more than any business (apart from the extremely thick fishermen) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, A'Villan said: What? Get rich or die trying as the be all and end all of philosophical and cultural nature? If that's the case keep your silver I'll take the lead. It's just a quote from a movie that's played as an intro to a song I like, but I think it rings true. The Poverty of Philosophy is another good track by that artist. You have not showed your working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: You have not showed your working. Not everything that can be counted, counts. And not everything that counts, can be counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, bickster said: I'm really not sure it's Corporations, if that were the case, Brexit wouldn't have happened. Big corporations didn't want Brext. Disaster capitalists and hedgefunds wanted that more than any business (apart from the extremely thick fishermen) Bilderberg meetings and "American Courage: Our Commitment to a Free Society" the summit for billionaires worth in excess of one hundred billion, headed by the Koch brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted February 4, 2021 Author Share Posted February 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, A'Villan said: Not everything that can be counted, counts. And not everything that counts, can be counted. "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." Shall we have a battle of catchy phrases or a discussion? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted February 4, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) Over a dozen posts so far and not a single philosophical pun? Edited February 4, 2021 by Mark Albrighton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: Over a dozen posts so far and not a single philosophical pun? They’re a little Nietzsche for my taste. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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