Summer transfer window 2021

[barry'sboots]

14 hours ago, MrBlack said:

Without being harsh, we aren't signing 7 players. We only bought 4 last season, and loaned in Ross.

You may well be right.  However, I don't remember us exiting many players last summer, other than Samatta (replaced by/upgraded to Ollie), a couple of goalkeepers (we had too many but also upgraded to Martinez) and then Lansbury - who hadn't featured anyway - followed in January by loans for Hourihane (when Sanson came in) and Guilbert. 

This summer, there are more exits/long term injuries requiring replacing

1. Losing 4 squad members from the Back five Elmo - I believe Guilbert is adequate cover for Cash; Taylor - we definitely need LB cover; Heaton - it appears that they may want to replace Heaton with PL experience; Engels - all reports are that he is leaving and we definitely need a fourth choice CB with Tuanzebe being linked.  These are all cover/back up signings that I don't see being a big spend but I'm not sure how you could not do at least the LB cover and CB if Engels goes.
2. Major creative upgrades required (also replacements) Most recognise additional attacking creativity is needed as a priority, including Smith it appears, to "help Jack".  For me this is a RW to compete with Traore - replacing the injured Trez - and an ACM/LW (depending on what they want to do with Jack G) - replacing Barkley. 

That's four to five to replace seemingly known losses/exits, but only two are major acquisitions.

Then there are a couple of potential upgrades required

1. The other key area I would prioritise is a DCM - I think we have missed a strong defensive presence all season and particularly against certain opposition.  Nakamba has had some good games - particularly when we are under the cosh, but I don't see his ball retention/distribution as good enough for him to play if we aspire to be a top half team.
2. There is the big question re a back up/alternate "9" - There is a lot of speculation re Wes going out on loan.  If he does, we will have to buy a replacement.  I would love Edouard, as I think he is a bargain at the mooted £20m, but could see us return for Tammy, particularly if this is seen as a move that will help to keep Jack on board.

Lastly, and this is where I am possibly being greedy, I think we need cover at "10" and there is a couple of good young, relatively cheap options in Turnbull or Olise - if you believe the gossip/mooted prices.  Of course we could play two "8"'s in a 4-3-3 but our best performances have, imho, been when we have played 4-2-3-1 with a "10".

I find it hard to imagine any of our youngsters coming in next season as the second choice option for a team aspiring to the "Top 8".  They are still so young (most still 17 or 18) and inexperienced.  I would expect a number of them to be on loan or potentially in and around the first team squad and getting on the bench in the event of injuries (i.e. third choice cover).

I could see this being achieved for a net spend of circa £100m, if we signed, say, Rashica for £14m and Edouard for £20m, but more if we went with more expensive options.  Achievable for our owners and in line with the past couple of seasons spend.  Also, and I do see this as important, they know that they need to spend in the right places to keep Jack at Villa Park.  

I think the talk of three or four might be the major acquisitions that could come in as starters - RW, DCM and ACM/LW and, possibly a "9" - but I also think we will need 2 or 3 cover/back up just to replace known squad exits??

[Jas10]

6 hours ago, Pissflaps said:

One thing I think we need more than anything is more pace across the team..we statistically have the slowest team in the league last season.

[Kiwivillan]

37 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

I find it hard to imagine any of our youngsters coming in next season as the second choice option for a team aspiring to the "Top 8".  They are still so young (most still 17 or 18) and inexperienced.  I would expect a number of them to be on loan or potentially in and around the first team squad and getting on the bench in the event of injuries (i.e. third choice cover).

Greenwood, Fabio Silva. If you're good enough you're old enough

[Jas10]

This was our line up against Spurs in our first game back in the PL (2019)..

It just struck me how much we’ve improved the side since then… and how much better we are going to get. And also how far we have come…

We had Luiz, Konsa, Targett, Lansbury, Jota, Kodjia & Steer on the bench…

[barry'sboots]

5 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Greenwood, Fabio Silva. If you're good enough you're old enough

Greenwood is a really good player.  Jude Bellingham and Foden are doing ok as well.  Rooney was similar.  There are a few players that can do it and I'm not saying that ours shouldn't be involved but I just don't think, from what I have seen, that they should be in a position at 17 or 18 where they are our second choice in a position where, should the first choice get injured, they would have to play week in week out.  Jack was 19 when he made his debut for us.

[Jas10]

Obviously we’ve strengthened all over (huge upgrades with Martinez, an improved Konsa & Targett and Cash, Watkins!), that defence looks absolutely woeful.

But atm I’m just thinking, to go from 

El Ghazi & Trez to

Bertie and potentially Buendia & Rashica…

wow…

[MotoMkali]

2 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

So when do you suggest we blood these players? And who said anything about “relying” on them? 
 

38 games plus the cups. It’s a long old season. 
 

If they’re good enough I dgaf what they cost or where they came from. The club will spend money no doubt, but integrating one or two youth players into the squad each season if poss is smart business if nothing else.

You loan them out to cut their teeth first. A good performance warrants a number of starts and minutes.

You can't just have 100 minutes a season and expect that will be enough to develop a player. 

[Kiwivillan]

2 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Obviously we’ve strengthened all over (huge upgrades with Martinez, an improved Konsa & Targett and Cash, Watkins!), that defence looks absolutely woeful.

But atm I’m just thinking, to go from 

El Ghazi & Trez to

Bertie and potentially Buendia & Rashica…

wow…

You don't know Rashica would be any better. In fact he was pretty shit in relegated team

[MotoMkali]

6 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

Greenwood is a really good player.  Jude Bellingham and Foden are doing ok as well.  Rooney was similar.  There are a few players that can do it and I'm not saying that ours shouldn't be involved but I just don't think, from what I have seen, that they should be in a position at 17 or 18 where they are our second choice in a position where, should the first choice get injured, they would have to play week in week out.  Jack was 19 when he made his debut for us.

But it's almost as if they are in substantially better sides that don't require production from them whilst they get used to the game. That isn't the case with us. Anyone they are replacing means we are substantially worse off. Because the vast majority of our quality comes from when player. So when one position drops off the overall team quality drops off heavily as well. 

[Kiwivillan]

6 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

You loan them out to cut their teeth first. A good performance warrants a number of starts and minutes.

You can't just have 100 minutes a season and expect that will be enough to develop a player. 

Greenwood played 1300 minutes 19/20 season. Was same age as some of our youth players coming through

[barry'sboots]

4 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

I really don’t get the obsession with bringing through the youngsters so soon and thinking we don’t need x/y/z because Kessler/Barry can fill in.

There is such a monumental gulf in class from the level we all watched the other night and PL football. I genuinely don’t think any of them are ready, but I do think they have a shot at becoming a PL footballer if they are managed properly. 

Look at Chelsea. Mason Mount was on loan at Derby when he was 19/20. Tammy was on various Loans until he was 21/22. I’m sure there are heaps of other comparisons. 

The lads we’re all clambering to start more games, JPB, Carney, Kessler would get ripped apart at PL level, or certainly shown up unless they were exceptional. Let these lads go out on 2/3 loans to League 1/Championship sides for a couple of years and bring them back when they’re 21 to see if they are physically ready and good enough. 

Im really hoping that, having brought in the loan management team, that we start managing our youngsters properly. These kids need 35/40 games a season at a slightly lower, more physically demanding level rather than bossing other 17yr olds and playing 20 minutes here and there for the first team. 

Yes, there are exceptions, Foden/Greenwood etc. and I’m sure if they’re good enough, we’ll manage them properly but I think some on here are thinking we’ll have 3/4 of these lads being regular starters for us in a couple of years when the harsh reality is only 1, maybe 2 will make it. 

We need to treat the transfer system as a way of improving our squad where it needs improving and if a young lad comes through and performs brilliantly, then that is just a bonus. 

FWIW, I’d much prefer seeing Carney boss it for Notts Forest for 40 games next year instead of playing 4 or 5 times for our first team. 

I largely agree.  I also think they are still so young that some may benefit more from being around BH next season and working with Ollie Stevenson on their physique and joining in the first team training, possibly providing bench cover when someone is injured and going out the following year. I doubt any of them are ready to step up as a no. 2 choice yet where, should the first choice get injured, they might have to play week in week out. 

[barry'sboots]

4 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

But it's almost as if they are in substantially better sides that don't require production from them whilst they get used to the game. That isn't the case with us. Anyone they are replacing means we are substantially worse off. Because the vast majority of our quality comes from when player. So when one position drops off the overall team quality drops off heavily as well. 

I think we are agreeing???

Many of Greenwood and Foden's early minutes were late subs, EFL games or dead rubbers in the Champions League.

Some of ours might step up and perform but I wouldn't want to enter a season where we risk them as second choice and, say e.g. Cash gets a long term injury and Kessler has to play week in week out.  That could damage a young player and also put a lot of physical strain on them.

[barry'sboots]

14 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

he looked really good when he first appeared for England. But this season he has looked very average when he has played. Clearly has ability doesn't seem to be fulfilling his potential.

He'd be expensive and we really haven't done too well loaning players from Chelski since we have been in the PL!

[messi11]

Bid for Rashica

 

[Kiwivillan]

1 minute ago, messi11 said:

Bid for Rashica

 

I don't think that says what you think it says 

[barry'sboots]

3 hours ago, VillaChris said:

McGinn will always start while DS is manager imo. He isn't getting replaced in starting 11 anytime soon.

Doug inconsistant but we know his level is good enough when he's on form and currently a regular starter for Brazil which isn't too bad for a 22 year old.

Sanson been forgotten about already but he cost 15m and has good top level experience so will see how he plays next season before writing him off as many are doing (perhaps even the manager.....)

Not huge on Nakamba and I'd actually look to move him on but he did play well in some of his starts against decent teams this season so probably done enough to stay a squad player for next season.

Ramsey/Carney, both could get loaned out, both could stay. Hard to call.

Sign some wide players and Jack will be back in number 10 role more often.

I'd say that's a decent amount of options for the 3 midfield slots. Might not be enough to break into top 6 but to me summer is all about signing better final third options so we just don't instantly go on 1 win in 10 mode if we lose Jack or Ollie to injury for 2-3 months next season.

 

Fair summary that I largely agree with.  I like Nakamba's effort and energy but he is just not good enough on the ball and, like Delphino said and you are hinting, I would hope we can upgrade him with a DCM that can challenge to start next season. 

[messi11]

4 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

I don't think that says what you think it says 

!

[barry'sboots]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Why does that have to happen next season?

We're building a squad to get us there and surely developing very talented youth players in our first team, helps us do that. 

I think most of us worry that if we don't make that kind of progress we will lose Jack and then that will put us back quite a bit.  And once you lose your best players - as we have in the past - you then start to look like a selling club again.

The owners are ambitious and have the wherewithal to invest at that level - why would you not what them to do it and see us competing at the top end of the table.  We aren't a million miles away, assuming we keep Jack and Ollie, and could certainly, with another good summer of recruitment, challenge the tier below the three NW clubs and Chelski??  

[paul514]

3 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

If that’s the case then we simply won’t improve and break the top 8, let alone the top 6.

If the owners are serious about improving and competing for the top 6/8, then we need at least 2 first team players adding. I’d go as far as to say we actually need 3. A DCM, ACM, AMR.

I get its absolutely fantastic when you don’t need to spend 30-50m on a player because you’ve managed to bring one through from your academy but I think we’re still a couple of years away from that.

Id be shocked if we didn’t spend 80m+ again this Summer. Why spend all this money to become an established mid-table team and then not continue to invest when we can attract a higher calibre of player? 

Relying on the lads who won the FA Youth Cup to improve our first team next season is madness and we won’t go anywhere. Get them lot out on loan and bed them in slowly. 

I feel similar that I would like the spending to continue to make progress.

However, they have put an awful lot of money into the club and I think we are all very grateful for this.

I won’t expect them to do the same this summer and the summers after in perpetuity.

If they feel they want to put the breaks on spending and see how the current players develop and some of the better kids develop then I am content with that considering what they have achieved for us.

We will bring players in of course but it may only be a couple and they may not cost that much in terms of a net spend. 

[barry'sboots]

1 minute ago, paul514 said:

I feel similar that I would like the spending to continue to make progress.

However, they have put an awful lot of money into the club and I think we are all very grateful for this.

I won’t expect them to do the same this summer and the summers after in perpetuity.

If they feel they want to put the breaks on spending and see how the current players develop and some of the better kids develop then I am content with that considering what they have achieved for us.

We will bring players in of course but it may only be a couple and they may not cost that much in terms of a net spend. 

I don't think anyone would disagree with your opinion of the owners.

But they seem ambitious and the spend is relatively small beer for them and you could argue that, having spent £250m, or whatever it is, over the last couple of years, why stop now when you are on the cusp of really competing at the top end and seeing the fruits of your labour (or spending)?  It was similar with Lerner and O'Neill when he had invested plenty but fell down at the last hurdle, by going with the relatively cheap Heskey, when a more ambitious signing could have got us into the top 4 and changed the feel around the club dramatically.  So close, yet so far! 

I guess we'll all know where they are in their Villa journey in about three month's time!