Summer transfer window 2021

[KentVillan]

One of the things that always makes me laugh about these transfer threads is how people assume we are always looking at just one or two players at a time.

Don't you think we have several channels of inquiry at all times? We have a dedicated Sporting Director and a team of scouts and commercial people.

How much effort do you think is wasted on scouting a player like ESR or JWP? Opposition players in the PL get analysed anyway, even when we're not looking to sign them. Did we lose any money bidding on these players?

Since NSWE and Purslow took over, we've mostly been excellent in the transfer market. Even the summer after we were promoted, we were faced with an almost impossible challenge, and managed to bring in Mings, AEG, Konsa, Targett, Heaton, Luiz who have all been key players. Yes we made one or two high profile mistakes, but usually these get rectified in the next summer window.

It's hard to point to any of our signings as an outright disaster. Wesley is the obvious one, but £22m really isn't that much for a young, highly rated striker, and we should still recoup some of that fee. Every other player we've spent serious money on has met or exceeded expectations.

(And anyway, I don't think JWP *was* just playing us for a better contract. I think he wanted out, but nobody was prepared to meet Southampton's valuation.)

Edited August 25, 2021 by KentVillan

[KentVillan]

1 minute ago, Pissflaps said:

Maybe? I dunno I'm just tired of watching us sell our best players while teams like spuds retain theirs.

Thing is, Kane so obviously wants out, you wonder how this is going to end for Spurs. It's one thing having a homegrown player who wants an improved contract, it's another thing entirely when that player is doing everything they can to force a move.

[KMitch]

41 minutes ago, Pissflaps said:

So we bent over and allowed Grealish a release clause which we naively didn't believe would be met..it was so we are weakened. Spurs didnt allow this with Kane. Yet we all pisstake Levy.

We are drawn into bidding for two players who go onto sign new contracts for their existing teams. Pawns in the agents games used to enhance contracts at current teams. 

Whilst I am happy with the behind the scenes running overall even the most positive fan surely can see this isn't good.

 

I don't think Purslow and Lange are out there getting used and laughed at by agents.  I only see going after hard to get players like ESR, JWP, and McKinnie as a good thing.  They know we need quality to break into Europe, so they're going after actual quality players... You're only focusing on the reported deals which didn't pan out...  We managed to beat Arsenal to Buendia, who was reported as Arsenal's "top" target this summer.  Should we just say "Oh, Arsenal bid for him, we stand no chance and shouldn't even waste our time because some of our fans will think we don't know what we're doing if it doesn't pan out."

Not every deal is going to work out, but the ones which have (Buendia, Bailey, & Ings so far) are a huge step up in quality from the rest of the squad.  Jack was going eventually.  To get 100 million pounds for an injury prone academy graduate who has off the field problems has been great business.  

[nick76]

44 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

If we got a bid in for ElGhazi I would expect that he would be gone

I’m not so sure, Smith likes AEG. I don’t think he’d be going as easily as you hope.  I think unless a premium he’d be staying and I’m guessing your value and Smiths will be very different.

[KMitch]

6 minutes ago, Pissflaps said:

Maybe? I dunno I'm just tired of watching us sell our best players while teams like spuds retain theirs.

Spurs sold Bale...  Every club but PSG/Man City/Madrid are selling clubs now.  That's the way the game works, unfortunately.  

[romavillan]

4 minutes ago, Pissflaps said:

Maybe? I dunno I'm just tired of watching us sell our best players while teams like spuds retain theirs.

Whilst we were being run into the ground, going down, and nearly going bust. Spurs broke in to the top 4, and were regularly top 6 and built a squad to compete at the top end of the league. It's not surprising that even now we're on the rise the clubs that are already up there can turn our players heads.

Shit as it maybe, until we're getting into europe ourselves it will be the case. Leicester won the title and said goodbye to Kante and Mahrez!

[CarryOnVilla]

43 minutes ago, Pissflaps said:

So we bent over and allowed Grealish a release clause which we naively didn't believe would be met..it was so we are weakened. Spurs didnt allow this with Kane. Yet we all pisstake Levy.

We are drawn into bidding for two players who go onto sign new contracts for their existing teams. Pawns in the agents games used to enhance contracts at current teams. 

Whilst I am happy with the behind the scenes running overall even the most positive fan surely can see this isn't good.

 

As far as being used as "pawns" is a bit weak really.. We never had a bid accepted from the clubs to be "used".  If anything, all our bids for JWP and ESR were real light weight (to their own valuation) and were hardly going to be accepted by the Arse and Southampton. 

If we had the bids accepted and then the players turn around and signed the extensions then i would feel "used". As things stand, we bid low and both clubs panic and gave the players their desired extensions. Villa are not winners in this situation, but we ain't lost anything... We barely tried  

We rattled our tiktaks and Arse and Southampton gave out contracts they didn't really want to.

[one_ian_taylor]

8 minutes ago, romavillan said:

Whilst we were being run into the ground, going down, and nearly going bust. Spurs broke in to the top 4, and were regularly top 6 and built a squad to compete at the top end of the league. It's not surprising that even now we're on the rise the clubs that are already up there can turn our players heads.

Shit as it maybe, until we're getting into europe ourselves it will be the case. Leicester won the title and said goodbye to Kante and Mahrez!

Don't forget £35m midfield maestro Danny Drinkwater. 

[barry'sboots]

23 hours ago, MJ_1874 said:

Tielemans - stats are about the same as McGinns (the disrespect on his name is criminal) 
Maddison - A number 10 comparable to Buendia, we'll see who end up creating the most this year
Ndidi - Defensive machine would love him
Rice - Overated can tackle ok but no where near to Ndidi's level.  Doesn't really contribute much else. £100m for him a joke.  Would prefer Bissouma.
Soucek - Weird player, ok at tackling and scoring goals but that's about it.  
Benrahma - Comparable to Bailey/Buendia/Traore we'll see who scores/assists more come the end of the season

So no we are not a million miles away from these two teams.  We are lacking a true Ndidi type player which we all know.

Tielemans - stats are about the same as McGinns (the disrespect on his name is criminal) I'm SJM's biggest fan BUT he was inconsistent for large parts of last season.  If he can recapture his pre-injury/Scotland form I think he can be great for us and on a par/better than Tielemans
Maddison - A number 10 comparable to Buendia, we'll see who end up creating the most this year I don't see Buendia as a "10" and most Norwich fans would say the same I believe.  Maybe with a strong "6" in there (an Ndidi) this would afford Buendia more licence to roam/create? Maddison as a "10" every time for me.
Ndidi - Defensive machine would love him 
Rice - Overated can tackle ok but no where near to Ndidi's level.  Doesn't really contribute much else. £100m for him a joke.  Would prefer Bissouma.  I think he's good.  I would take Bissouma over him though and definitely wouldn't value him at JG levels.
Soucek - Weird player, ok at tackling and scoring goals but that's about it.  Great second sitter/box to box 8.  Maybe not an elite/top 4 player but outside of that he does a great job and really complements Rice and a "10".
Benrahma - Comparable to Bailey/Buendia/Traore we'll see who scores/assists more come the end of the season I think he is probably better as a "10" than our three (although I haven't really seen Bailey play there!)  We will see how Buendia and Bailey do - I hope that they can eclipse Benrhama.  I think he is a more consistent threat than BT but he has had the benefit of playing in England longer.  I think/hope that BT will be a better, or at least more consistent, version of himself this season.

So no we are not a million miles away from these two teams.  We are lacking a true Ndidi type player which we all know.

I think both sides have a better "6" - we know that's our major weakness and I hope that it is addressed.  They both also have a better blend imho with proper "6"'s, "8"'s that are comfortable as second sitters/double pivots (whatever you want to call them) whilst also happy breaking forward/scoring and "10"s.

Leicester have better quality overall but I think, if we buy a strong "6" and SJM and Luiz can recapture their best form, we can more than compete with the above midfields.  And if we can bring in McKennie  and Sanson comes through (personally, I would like to see Jacob Ramsey go out on loan and get 30+ starts this season) then we would have real options/strength. 

[Rightdm00]

12 minutes ago, romavillan said:

Whilst we were being run into the ground, going down, and nearly going bust. Spurs broke in to the top 4, and were regularly top 6 and built a squad to compete at the top end of the league. It's not surprising that even now we're on the rise the clubs that are already up there can turn our players heads.

Shit as it maybe, until we're getting into europe ourselves it will be the case. Leicester won the title and said goodbye to Kante and Mahrez!

Yep. It's inevitable if you sign younger players they will want to kick on if the club doesn't progress at the same rate as their ambition.  That is why we moved quickly to offer all of our young performers new deals. That way even if they do get their head turned the transfer fee we receive will easily allow us to find a replacement and further invest in the club. 

[Beastmix]

20 minutes ago, romavillan said:

Whilst we were being run into the ground, going down, and nearly going bust. Spurs broke in to the top 4, and were regularly top 6 and built a squad to compete at the top end of the league. It's not surprising that even now we're on the rise the clubs that are already up there can turn our players heads.

Shit as it maybe, until we're getting into europe ourselves it will be the case. Leicester won the title and said goodbye to Kante and Mahrez!

Totally. Spurs had those two top 4 seasons under Redknapp, but broke into the top 3 off the back of selling Modric and Bale in consecutive seasons and investing the money in a squad. With the money they raised from these two outgoings (plus what they would have spent anyway) they were able to bring in: Loris, Mousa Dembele, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Lamela, Soldado, Chadli, etc, etc. A year or two of gelling later and they were challenging for the title.

Other teams across Europe sell off their top talents and re-invest all the time. Goes to show if you can use the money wisely, as I think we've done this transfer window, good things will likely happen.

At least we're not blowing £120+ mil on utter dross like Arsenal.

[andym]

39 minutes ago, Pissflaps said:

Therefore we set the bar too low last summer and didn't anticipate his value rising did we

£100 mil is the 6th most expensive transfer fee ever! You do realise both sides had to agree to the value of the release clause? 

Maybe we asked for higher, but Grealish could have said 'i wont sign then'. That would have left us in a situation where this summer he only had 2 years left on his existing deal and wanted out, and we definitely wouldn't have been getting £100 million then.

[Phil Silvers]

20 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

Tielemans - stats are about the same as McGinns (the disrespect on his name is criminal) I'm SJM's biggest fan BUT he was inconsistent for large parts of last season.  If he can recapture his pre-injury/Scotland form I think he can be great for us and on a par/better than Tielemans
Maddison - A number 10 comparable to Buendia, we'll see who end up creating the most this year I don't see Buendia as a "10" and most Norwich fans would say the same I believe.  Maybe with a strong "6" in there (an Ndidi) this would afford Buendia more licence to roam/create? Maddison as a "10" every time for me.
Ndidi - Defensive machine would love him 
Rice - Overated can tackle ok but no where near to Ndidi's level.  Doesn't really contribute much else. £100m for him a joke.  Would prefer Bissouma.  I think he's good.  I would take Bissouma over him though and definitely wouldn't value him at JG levels.
Soucek - Weird player, ok at tackling and scoring goals but that's about it.  Great second sitter/box to box 8.  Maybe not an elite/top 4 player but outside of that he does a great job and really complements Rice and a "10".
Benrahma - Comparable to Bailey/Buendia/Traore we'll see who scores/assists more come the end of the season I think he is probably better as a "10" than our three (although I haven't really seen Bailey play there!)  We will see how Buendia and Bailey do - I hope that they can eclipse Benrhama.  I think he is a more consistent threat than BT but he has had the benefit of playing in England longer.  I think/hope that BT will be a better, or at least more consistent, version of himself this season.

So no we are not a million miles away from these two teams.  We are lacking a true Ndidi type player which we all know.

I think both sides have a better "6" - we know that's our major weakness and I hope that it is addressed.  They both also have a better blend imho with proper "6"'s, "8"'s that are comfortable as second sitters/double pivots (whatever you want to call them) whilst also happy breaking forward/scoring and "10"s.

Leicester have better quality overall but I think, if we buy a strong "6" and SJM and Luiz can recapture their best form, we can more than compete with the above midfields.  And if we can bring in McKennie  and Sanson comes through (personally, I would like to see Jacob Ramsey go out on loan and get 30+ starts this season) then we would have real options/strength. 

Are you a MOD now.

[Mark Albrighton]

40 minutes ago, KMitch said:

Spurs sold Bale...  Every club but PSG/Man City/Madrid are selling clubs now.  That's the way the game works, unfortunately.  

And Modric just before that. I think Kane is the most sought after player since those two unless I’m forgetting someone. So it’s not like they keep retaining their best, most wanted players. They’ve done it on this occasion. For now.

[OLDVILLAIN]

I got a warning for posting 5 words in a red font...forgot about the rules! at that rate you will get banned for about 2346 yrs!

[LondonLax]

57 minutes ago, Pissflaps said:

Therefore we set the bar too low last summer and didn't anticipate his value rising did we

Can you be sure Grealish would have agreed to sign a new contract if the clause was much higher. The clause obviously came from his side not ours. I would assume we negotiated with him as high a clause as possible. 

[RicRic]

23 minutes ago, Beastmix said:

Totally. Spurs had those two top 4 seasons under Redknapp, but broke into the top 3 off the back of selling Modric and Bale in consecutive seasons and investing the money in a squad. With the money they raised from these two outgoings (plus what they would have spent anyway) they were able to bring in: Loris, Mousa Dembele, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Lamela, Soldado, Chadli, etc, etc. A year or two of gelling later and they were challenging for the title.

Other teams across Europe sell off their top talents and re-invest all the time. Goes to show if you can use the money wisely, as I think we've done this transfer window, good things will likely happen.

At least we're not blowing £120+ mil on utter dross like Arsenal.

I think this is a great example and a blueprint that actually worked and paid off, will make many of us look at losing Grealish a lot different and lets face it Bale was ten times more effective and dangerous before he left spurs so if we can follow that model then that can be us hopefully

I was keen on a miracle signing of Mckennie but now im not so sure if hes that piece of the puzzle that’s missing, im confused as to whether Luiz stays there or if hes better more forward up the field  i cant quite  work it out, but Mckennie would be able to play both Mcginn and Luiz’s role thats for certain after checking his history. 

[RicRic]

46 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

Tielemans - stats are about the same as McGinns (the disrespect on his name is criminal) I'm SJM's biggest fan BUT he was inconsistent for large parts of last season.  If he can recapture his pre-injury/Scotland form I think he can be great for us and on a par/better than Tielemans
Maddison - A number 10 comparable to Buendia, we'll see who end up creating the most this year I don't see Buendia as a "10" and most Norwich fans would say the same I believe.  Maybe with a strong "6" in there (an Ndidi) this would afford Buendia more licence to roam/create? Maddison as a "10" every time for me.
Ndidi - Defensive machine would love him 
Rice - Overated can tackle ok but no where near to Ndidi's level.  Doesn't really contribute much else. £100m for him a joke.  Would prefer Bissouma.  I think he's good.  I would take Bissouma over him though and definitely wouldn't value him at JG levels.
Soucek - Weird player, ok at tackling and scoring goals but that's about it.  Great second sitter/box to box 8.  Maybe not an elite/top 4 player but outside of that he does a great job and really complements Rice and a "10".
Benrahma - Comparable to Bailey/Buendia/Traore we'll see who scores/assists more come the end of the season I think he is probably better as a "10" than our three (although I haven't really seen Bailey play there!)  We will see how Buendia and Bailey do - I hope that they can eclipse Benrhama.  I think he is a more consistent threat than BT but he has had the benefit of playing in England longer.  I think/hope that BT will be a better, or at least more consistent, version of himself this season.

So no we are not a million miles away from these two teams.  We are lacking a true Ndidi type player which we all know.

I think both sides have a better "6" - we know that's our major weakness and I hope that it is addressed.  They both also have a better blend imho with proper "6"'s, "8"'s that are comfortable as second sitters/double pivots (whatever you want to call them) whilst also happy breaking forward/scoring and "10"s.

Leicester have better quality overall but I think, if we buy a strong "6" and SJM and Luiz can recapture their best form, we can more than compete with the above midfields.  And if we can bring in McKennie  and Sanson comes through (personally, I would like to see Jacob Ramsey go out on loan and get 30+ starts this season) then we would have real options/strength. 

Well everyone wanted Buendia as RW right midfield etc after the watford game and he was moved there for the game against Newcastle and lets be honest he was non existent and didnt do anything more there and didnt take on any of the defenders, he would be wasted there IF he does not bring that pace and speed in that area whereas Bailey would be causing destruction. Time is the essence so he will need to impress sooner or later because we need all areas to be utilised greatly, bidace has to be given a start soon as LW, he needs to be more clinical in the final third however and make better decisions but he causes tremendous problems for the opposition and will certainly be more of a dynamic nuisance than El-Ghazi

[Delphinho123]

7 minutes ago, RicRic said:

Well everyone wanted Buendia as RW right midfield etc after the watford game and he was moved there for the game against Newcastle and lets be honest he was non existent and didnt do anything more there and didnt take on any of the defenders, he would be wasted there IF he does not bring that pace and speed in that area whereas Bailey would be causing destruction. Time is the essence so he will need to impress sooner or later because we need all areas to be utilised greatly, bidace has to be given a start soon as LW, he needs to be more clinical in the final third however and make better decisions but he causes tremendous problems for the opposition and will certainly be more of a dynamic nuisance than El-Ghazi

The only way we can Buendia as a 10 is if we sign at least one defensive midfielder, and even then I think we’d be overrun through the middle. 

If we sign Doucoure and McKennie, I could see Buendia as the 10. Then you could use Bailey and either Traore/JPB/Watkins on the wings.

I sound like a broken record and I’m annoying myself now but we really need to sort out the midfield. We’d get Doucoure and McKennie for about £35m combined leaving us with a net spend of about £25m. If only we could move a few players on..

[Peter Griffin]

2 hours ago, Pissflaps said:

a release clause which we naively didn't believe would be met.

Or maybe Purslow et al wanted to sell Grealish for 100m and put the release clause in the contract so that they could justify accepting the offer in front of the fans. The bids that went in for ESR and JWP were very low ball. Could it be that Purslow wanted to bid for them and then let other clubs see that we only upped our bid by a small amount, which again we knew would be refused and then we walked away and stopped bidding. This would show others that when AVFC reaches the price we believe a player is worth that we will not go any further and walk. This would put us in a good position for future negotiations, particularly as other clubs know we just sold Jack for 100m. Perhaps it is not the club and the management that are the naive ones.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Peter Griffin