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General officiating/rules


StefanAVFC
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45 minutes ago, stewiek2 said:

It's unacceptable to get death threats, but why ask to not officiate this weekend? It's not like fans are allowed in to watch anyway?

It’s transpiring that he was due to have a break this weekend anyway because amount of games he has reffed recently. However, tying this together adds more credence to this spin story.

Root and branch overhaul of officiating needed. The Moss incident was the straw that broke the camels back for me. Never beforehand had that law been interpreted that way. Clearly an error had been made. Yet, it became a case for the Ministry of Truth.

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how Lee Mason isn't getting more criticism is interesting to me. He was the one telling Mike Dean to go to the monitor for both of the red card incidents this past week - indicating that he thought that they were both reds. 

 

oh and they were our combo when we played Southampton, which in itself had "controversial" calls

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If he can look at an incident, watching dozens of replays over a few minutes, with input from other officials, and make a call that's so clearly wrong it gets overturned, and for that to happen twice in as many weeks...Surely it's time to put performance measures in place and consider the fact that he might not be competent at his job?

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I agree completely with @Stevo985.

Nobody should receive death threats for making mistakes at work, and I think far more needs to be done to shut down online threats and harassment. It is, sadly, par for the course for refs though. They get abuse and hateful messages pretty much every week if they dare make a big decision about a lunatic's club. The significant thing that distinguishes this is that Dean clearly **** up and there were going to be consequences.

It doesn't excuse the behaviour of these cowards sending threats on the internet, but this is all about saving face, IMO.

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57 minutes ago, Villaphan04 said:

how Lee Mason isn't getting more criticism is interesting to me. He was the one telling Mike Dean to go to the monitor for both of the red card incidents this past week - indicating that he thought that they were both reds. 

 

oh and they were our combo when we played Southampton, which in itself had "controversial" calls

 

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44 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

INobody should receive death threats for making mistakes at work, and I think far more needs to be done to shut down online threats and harassment. It is, sadly, par for the course for refs though. They get abuse and hateful messages pretty much every week if they dare make a big decision about a lunatic's club. The significant thing that distinguishes this is that Dean clearly **** up and there were going to be consequences.

It doesn't excuse the behaviour of these cowards sending threats on the internet, but this is all about saving face, IMO.

Who takes death threats sent anonymously online seriously? Nobody. It's just the standard keyboard warrior stuff that is everywhere on the internet. When you see it mentioned it's is usually someone looking for sympathy or trying to distract attention from something else. Here dean is trying to get compassion and distract from the fact that he's made big errors in games. Needless to say he shouldn't be getting any sympathy for anything.  

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19 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Who takes death threats sent anonymously online seriously? Nobody. It's just the standard keyboard warrior stuff that is everywhere on the internet

I agree that's how things are, but I think it's absolutely unacceptable, and it's now how things should be.

Going a bit off topic though!

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It feels like there's never been less faith in our referees,  that there is less trust in them and that the quality of refereeing is poorer than at any time I can remember.

I can't help but wonder how much of that is down to VAR. It seems to me like previously a referee would make a mistake and we'd accept that it was a mistake or a dubious opinion on something, we'd be angry, but it was what it was - now we're in a position where those slightly dubious decisions are reviewed and ratified without comment from the referee and there's a feeling that they are incapable at best or crooked at worst.

VAR was introduced to help referees, that's what we were told, that was its primary purpose - it's doing exactly the opposite.

I'm not sure if this is happening in other countries and I think in part its because referees are using VAR to protect referees - to justify bad decisions - I think an awful lot of faith in the refereeing in this country could be reclaimed by the simple act of referees saying "I got that one wrong" from time to time - reminding us that they're human and that the standard to which we judge them should be based around them making the odd mistake. Instead, we have a sort of "gang" attitude where the VAR referee comes up with something to support his mate and they write a perspective on a rule to justify it.

We're using VAR to suggest that referees are perfect, then bending definitions to protect the idea of that perfection - in doing so, we're making our referees a laughing stock and getting some of the worst performances I can remember.

I don't know anyone who thinks VAR makes the game better - it's past time people just stopped accepting it.

 

 

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Here’s the problem though, the FA are not going to throw refs under the bus, they need to somehow keep people interested in becoming referees (I’ve said before, I think you have to be of a certain persuasion to want to be a ref, and it’s a minority of people for sure), if they’re going to start publicly disciplining refs every time they mess up - additional to the social media, abuse in the street and media focus - well their pipeline for new refs will dry up quickly.

I’ll say it again because I really don’t know why we don’t do this - set up a programme so that players coming to the end of their careers can begin training as a ref, scrap this ‘professional refereeing’ crap because all it’s done is heightened their ego’s and warped sense of importance. Players in league 1&2 and non-league players desperate to remain involved in football (but not keen on coaching) and desperate to continue earning money would surely take this up, and I sincerely believe that ex-players will know how to officiate better than so called professionals.

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20 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't know anyone who thinks VAR makes the game better - it's past time people just stopped accepting it.

It's easy enough for fans to not accept it, but ending it is the challenge. I don't want it fixed, I want it ended.

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4 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

If I'm being cynical... he's asked not to referee because he knows he'll be temporarily demoted anyway. We've seen it numerous times before where refs make bad decisions and the get dropped.

Dean has made two shockers in 2 weeks, made even worse because he had the opportunity to review each one multiple times from multiple angles etc and still made the wrong decision.

I think he'd have been dropped anyway and he's using this as an excuse to deflect the real reason he won't be reffing in the prem next week

I think it’s harsh to blame Mike Dean for that red card without knowing what is being said to him by VAR.

The fact he’s been called over to the screen means that Lee Mason on VAR believes he has made a mistake. I’d put the blame more on Mason for this one. If he doesn’t get involved then Mike Dean doesn’t even book Soucek and the right decision is made.

Effectively Mason has screwed over Dean here. You make him second guess himself by getting him to look at the screen and then show him hundreds of slow mo replays of an elbow hitting Mitrovic in the head while telling him it’s violent conduct.

I genuinely think that VAR is making worse decisions than just a normal referee and linesmen now. 

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13 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

For the purposes of accountability and explanation - would it be worth having a camera in the VR room and being able to see and hear the communication between the VAR official and the referee?

It would increase sympathy for them massively. Because I think they're sat there with a big book of rules ready to refer to them.

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