sidcow Posted November 5, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted November 5, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said: They need that valuable experience of playing proper competitive football with men. If you was to ask these kids, either train with the first team or go out on loan and play for 90 minutes , my guess is most would pick the latter. As for Rooney and Bellingham, they're exceptions to the rule. When Cowans and Shaw came through the game wasn't like it is today, in terms of loaning kids out before they break into the first team. I'm trying to think of the last kid who came straight through to the first team. Hendrie and Barry, maybe. Yep. You want to prove a point? Pick on the greatest players of their generation to prove that is the rule not the exception and ignore the 20,000 other young footballers who get chewed up and spat out. Talking about Rooney and Bellingham is completely pointless unless you've got a someone on the books who is training with the first team and totally destroying them. Not just doing OK but clearly being better than the regular human pros. And even then there is still no guarantee. I remember watching the youth FA Cup Final when Rooney scored 1 and Stephan Moore, that was Stephan Moore scored 2. Edited November 5, 2022 by sidcow 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 5, 2022 Share Posted November 5, 2022 (edited) On 01/07/2022 at 23:45, Dillon66 said: I really do get tired of reading how such and such young player needs to go out on loan to get 'valuable experience' before they're good enough for the first team. As far back as Gary Shaw and Gordon Cowans, if they were good enough they were old enough. Players like Owen, Rooney and now Bellingham are the same......why we think a lad's going to learn more in a season playing against Rotherham or MK Dons, rather than training every day with the likes of Coutinho is beyond me..... I have no idea if Lamar is of merchantable quality, but going out on Loan, can only give us some idea. I think Ian Danter, made some good observations on Talk Sport, the other day, about youth academies. He was talking about academies in general and how the football is not conducive to the first team games, both Prem and championship....so the transition is an enormous gap. He was saying it's a bit nannyfied, and they find it difficult to make the transition...when I have watched Youth Football, I can see his point. It's all very well, playing the tricks and flicks in youth football, but you have to make the impression, when opposition, try to stop you from playing, and that takes a whole different skill set....I find some fans dismiss it, as an inconvenience, to purist football...There is no filter, in this game, you have to work with the pretty and the ugly aspects of it.....and if you are only good at one, you are unlikely to make it. I understand, why they are loaned out....to mix it in mens football, something some folk try to deny. It's one of the reasons, some fancied youth players, don't make it.....The physicality, and intensity, is a whole different environment.....I rarely get excited, with youth football, until I see them deal with the first team. as example, when you watch Jude Bellingham, its clear and obvious of his adaption to the big game, sure he has guile and all the eye catching abilities, but his physicality, for such a young boy is phenomenal....as was Duncan Edwards, years before him, but born in close proximity...Stourbridge and Dudley. Edited November 5, 2022 by TRO 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messi11 Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 West Brom and Norwich fighting for him on loan. Rather loan him to WBA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 On 05/11/2022 at 14:28, TRO said: I have no idea if Lamar is of merchantable quality, but going out on Loan, can only give us some idea. I think Ian Danter, made some good observations on Talk Sport, the other day, about youth academies. He was talking about academies in general and how the football is not conducive to the first team games, both Prem and championship....so the transition is an enormous gap. He was saying it's a bit nannyfied, and they find it difficult to make the transition...when I have watched Youth Football, I can see his point. It's all very well, playing the tricks and flicks in youth football, but you have to make the impression, when opposition, try to stop you from playing, and that takes a whole different skill set....I find some fans dismiss it, as an inconvenience, to purist football...There is no filter, in this game, you have to work with the pretty and the ugly aspects of it.....and if you are only good at one, you are unlikely to make it. I understand, why they are loaned out....to mix it in mens football, something some folk try to deny. It's one of the reasons, some fancied youth players, don't make it.....The physicality, and intensity, is a whole different environment.....I rarely get excited, with youth football, until I see them deal with the first team. as example, when you watch Jude Bellingham, its clear and obvious of his adaption to the big game, sure he has guile and all the eye catching abilities, but his physicality, for such a young boy is phenomenal....as was Duncan Edwards, years before him, but born in close proximity...Stourbridge and Dudley. One reason why the B team model works well, youth players in Spain, Germany etc are playing against men week in week out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupinthe5th Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 Wonder if he will get some game time today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted December 8, 2022 Moderator Share Posted December 8, 2022 On 05/11/2022 at 14:28, TRO said: as example, when you watch Jude Bellingham, its clear and obvious of his adaption to the big game, sure he has guile and all the eye catching abilities, but his physicality, for such a young boy is phenomenal....as was Duncan Edwards, years before him, but born in close proximity...Stourbridge and Dudley. Jude Bellingham who was bought through an academy system and never went out on loan is an example of how players who don't come through academy systems develop as better able to deal with the physical and mentally tough aspects of the game and how loans help them 'man up'? He's an exception to not an example of the things you've spoken about in the rest of your post. He's the poster boy for an academy footballing education. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted December 8, 2022 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted December 8, 2022 8 hours ago, duke313 said: One reason why the B team model works well, youth players in Spain, Germany etc are playing against men week in week out. I'm not sure I'm prepared to sacrifice Northampton Two or Stockport County or any of the other English lower league teams with rich and proud histories so that Arsenal can have a better platform to develop their kids. It works well for young player development for sure, but I'd hate to see Man City B on the edge of the Championship play offs. I think really we should be looking for rules that make it harder for top clubs to stockpile young players, so that some of these kids are actually playing for Derby or Coventry, rather than us imposing Spurs multi-million pound youth team on a lower division. (Sorry to jump on your post, it's a personal bugbear, I hate the B team model and really dislike the way our Superleague six keep hinting at ways to nudge it into life). 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted December 8, 2022 Moderator Share Posted December 8, 2022 I like Lamare and it's good to see him back from his long period out of the game. He's going to be a decent pivot player who can defend and is really calm bringing the ball out of defence. He's not someone who is going to make a big glamorous impression, but he's someone that I think will find himself appreciated more and more, the longer he's there, wherever his loan takes him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 23 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Jude Bellingham who was bought through an academy system and never went out on loan is an example of how players who don't come through academy systems develop as better able to deal with the physical and mentally tough aspects of the game and how loans help them 'man up'? He's an exception to not an example of the things you've spoken about in the rest of your post. He's the poster boy for an academy footballing education. It seems there are examples of both scenario's 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) On 05/11/2022 at 14:26, sidcow said: Yep. You want to prove a point? Pick on the greatest players of their generation to prove that is the rule not the exception and ignore the 20,000 other young footballers who get chewed up and spat out. Talking about Rooney and Bellingham is completely pointless unless you've got a someone on the books who is training with the first team and totally destroying them. Not just doing OK but clearly being better than the regular human pros. And even then there is still no guarantee. I remember watching the youth FA Cup Final when Rooney scored 1 and Stephan Moore, that was Stephan Moore scored 2. I thinks its missing the point, to dismiss, the very best as exceptions......of course they are. Thats what we all aim for, so it shows whats missing, in the lesser mortals thats all. It's merely a way of describing a point. anyway, Lamare looks good to me. Edited December 10, 2022 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messi11 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Training with the 1st team. With no loan could feature on the bench if we get injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupinthe5th Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 On Loan to Bristol Rovers. Good Luck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Lupinthe5th said: On Loan to Bristol Rovers. Good Luck Might need it with Joey Barton as his manager Edited January 31, 2023 by gwi1890 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 That's a good signing for them as I think he would have been good enough for Championship, maybe the fact he just been out for a year put a stop to that. They seem to be a midtable team, still have an outside of play-offs but will probably be tough, but midtable team should give him a good experience of playing in both games where they're favorites and where they're up against it, which as a defensive player might be helpful towards his development. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 hour ago, gwi1890 said: Might need it with Joey Barton as his manager TBF to Barton the lil time he wasn’t being a prick in his career he was a very good footballer… Anyhow this should be a good move for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Makes his first Bristol Rovers start tonight, from a few comments I've seen from their fans seems like he's made a good impression based on his two brief appearances so far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Starts in midfield in the same lineup as Scott Sinclair 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Janoi Donacien playing for Ipswich can’t believe he’s 29 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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