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Lamare Bogarde


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I really do get tired of reading how such and such young player needs to go out on loan to get 'valuable experience' before they're good enough for the first team. As far back as Gary Shaw and Gordon Cowans, if they were good enough they were old enough. Players like Owen, Rooney and now Bellingham are the same......why we think a lad's going to learn more in a season playing against Rotherham or MK Dons, rather than training every day with the likes of Coutinho is beyond me.....

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2 minutes ago, Dillon66 said:

I really do get tired of reading how such and such young player needs to go out on loan to get 'valuable experience' before they're good enough for the first team. As far back as Gary Shaw and Gordon Cowans, if they were good enough they were old enough. Players like Owen, Rooney and now Bellingham are the same......why we think a lad's going to learn more in a season playing against Rotherham or MK Dons, rather than training every day with the likes of Coutinho is beyond me.....

Well the main reason is that they probably aren’t an Owen or Rooney.  They aren’t yet good enough to break into the Villa first team squad… so makes sense to see if they can flourish at a slightly lower level first.  

Grealish being a prime example of coming back from loan much better and ready to make the step up to the first team.

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28 minutes ago, Dillon66 said:

I really do get tired of reading how such and such young player needs to go out on loan to get 'valuable experience' before they're good enough for the first team. As far back as Gary Shaw and Gordon Cowans, if they were good enough they were old enough. Players like Owen, Rooney and now Bellingham are the same......why we think a lad's going to learn more in a season playing against Rotherham or MK Dons, rather than training every day with the likes of Coutinho is beyond me.....

Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Best, Messi, Bogarde

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34 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Well the main reason is that they probably aren’t an Owen or Rooney.  They aren’t yet good enough to break into the Villa first team squad… so makes sense to see if they can flourish at a slightly lower level first.  

Grealish being a prime example of coming back from loan much better and ready to make the step up to the first team.

We won't know if we don't try them......look at Archer, sent out on loan to Solihull f'in Moors who played him on the wing half the time, could have ruined the kid. As for Jack, he was always gona be good enough...his loan was just to toughen him up a bit (his words).

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41 minutes ago, Dillon66 said:

I really do get tired of reading how such and such young player needs to go out on loan to get 'valuable experience' before they're good enough for the first team. As far back as Gary Shaw and Gordon Cowans, if they were good enough they were old enough. Players like Owen, Rooney and now Bellingham are the same......why we think a lad's going to learn more in a season playing against Rotherham or MK Dons, rather than training every day with the likes of Coutinho is beyond me.....

Surely you appreciate playing games is important, when a player has been injured for example, they need to be match fit.

Playing real important games is going let him make mistake and learn from them

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7 hours ago, Dillon66 said:

I really do get tired of reading how such and such young player needs to go out on loan to get 'valuable experience' before they're good enough for the first team. As far back as Gary Shaw and Gordon Cowans, if they were good enough they were old enough. Players like Owen, Rooney and now Bellingham are the same......why we think a lad's going to learn more in a season playing against Rotherham or MK Dons, rather than training every day with the likes of Coutinho is beyond me.....

I think it depends on each player individually. Where they are physically and mentally. It works well for some but others may be ready to get games or some minutes with our own first team. It’s a thing at all clubs now. I wouldn’t dismiss the idea anymore than I’d make it a necessary career pathway. 
 

The club seems to take it seriously these days and put plenty of resources into managing it. Yes some loans don’t work out so well, but there’s no way the club are going to abandon the idea. We have a massive academy and we need to use all opportunities available to develop players. 

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7 hours ago, Dillon66 said:

We won't know if we don't try them......look at Archer, sent out on loan to Solihull f'in Moors who played him on the wing half the time, could have ruined the kid. As for Jack, he was always gona be good enough...his loan was just to toughen him up a bit (his words).

Archer is a weird one though, I don’t think he’d shown the form and finishing that he is now throughout his youth career. It just seems to have clicked for recently. Even then, the loan moves have helped him.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Bogarde is a funny one, as as good as he looks in defence, he looks genuinely just as good if not better in midfield, before Iroegbunam signed was probably our best academy central midfielder other than Aaron Ramsey and Carney Chukwuemeka even though he didn't always play as a midfielder, and truth be told probably pretty close between him and Iroegbunam as well as midfielders, so no idea if his long term position will be defence or midifeld he looks great in both.

Another funny thing about him as a midfielder is that as someone who plays as a central defender you'd might expect him to be more of pure DM when playing in midfield, but he can actually be a very decent box-to-box style midfielder, carries the ball forward really, when he first broke in the U23s and was playing midfield would sometimes get him and Chukwuemeka mixed up, obvously Bogarde doesn't have the attacking talents of Chukwuemeka, but they both have a similar elegant ease on the ball and graceful way of running with it.

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1 hour ago, useless said:

Bogarde is a funny one, as as good as he looks in defence, he looks genuinely just as good if not better in midfield, before Iroegbunam signed was probably our best academy central midfielder other than Aaron Ramsey and Carney Chukwuemeka even though he didn't always play as a midfielder, and truth be told probably pretty close between him and Iroegbunam as well as midfielders, so no idea if his long term position will be defence or midifeld he looks great in both.

Another funny thing about him as a midfielder is that as someone who plays as a central defender you'd might expect him to be more of pure DM when playing in midfield, but he can actually be a very decent box-to-box style midfielder, carries the ball forward really, when he first broke in the U23s and was playing midfield would sometimes get him and Chukwuemeka mixed up, obvously Bogarde doesn't have the attacking talents of Chukwuemeka, but they both have a similar elegant ease on the ball and graceful way of running with it.

Bogarde started as a DM/MC, we semi converted him to a DC, I agree he suuts the DM/no.8 positions.

Hopefully the time at DC was just to teach him something, rather than a permanent move.

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24 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

Bogarde started as a DM/MC, we semi converted him to a DC, I agree he suuts the DM/no.8 positions.

Hopefully the time at DC was just to teach him something, rather than a permanent move.

This is what I was thinking - his technical side of the game was pretty damn good already, it made sense to put him in a position to work hard on the defensive side.

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Bogarde looked classy whenever I've seen him play as a central defender, never seen him in the midfield. Less competition as a number 6 in our squad than at the back now. Has Gerrard specifically mentioned him anywhere?

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  • 2 months later...
2 hours ago, MaVilla said:

Genuinely, how does he go from not playing in the last......i dunno what is it.....12 months!?, to being a wild Bogarde appearing on the first team bench!?

Yeah bit of a joke isnt it really, how is getting ahead of Feeney without match fitness? Whats going on.  Thats why I asked did he get banned for drug substances? Seems like he's fit without playing!

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3 hours ago, messi11 said:

He's still alive?
On the bench against Leeds, but I've not seen him play a game for way over a year?
Mysterious. Did he get a drugs ban?

The thought crossed my mind to be fair due to the lack of information. Good to see he is still here at least anyway, still a very good prospect.

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  • 1 month later...
On 01/07/2022 at 23:45, Dillon66 said:

I really do get tired of reading how such and such young player needs to go out on loan to get 'valuable experience' before they're good enough for the first team. As far back as Gary Shaw and Gordon Cowans, if they were good enough they were old enough. Players like Owen, Rooney and now Bellingham are the same......why we think a lad's going to learn more in a season playing against Rotherham or MK Dons, rather than training every day with the likes of Coutinho is beyond me.....

 They need that valuable experience of playing proper competitive football with men. If you was to ask these kids, either train with the first team or go out on loan and play for 90 minutes , my guess is most would pick the latter.

As for Rooney and Bellingham, they're exceptions to the rule. When Cowans and Shaw came through the game wasn't like it is today, in terms of loaning kids out before they break into the first team. I'm trying to think of the last kid who came straight through to the first team. Hendrie and Barry, maybe.

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