Pre-Match Thread

[VillaChris]

1 minute ago, One For The Road said:

I'd be disappointed. But they aren't. And I consider this game more important than any one of our forthcoming fixtures.

I do understand what you are saying but I just think that with the condensed season, the clubs who have European commitments are even less likely to prioritise this competition this season. 

Also, given the fact this Villa side are capable of beating anyone on their day, I think this is a real chance.

The FA Cup is there for the taking.

I'll be mightily peed off if we don't give this a go and someone like Newcastle or Palace ends up winning it.

 

We'll see. Surely league cup would've been one they'd have just binned off but here we have Spurs and one of the Manchester clubs in the final.

Reality is the second string of these sides now are far better than any club below premier league (and better than many in the bottom half) so you don't get the shocks you used in this competition bar a lower league side really overperforming and getting a replay.

I think of all the major teams we could've played in this round Liverpool is the best one given they don't care about domestic cups under Klopp so good chance to knock out one of them and then hopefully get some more home draws and lower league clubs.

In our last run to the final we played Blackpool home, Bournemouth home (when they weren't premier league), Leicester home (when they were rock bottom of the league) and West Brom home so you always need the luck of the draw element aswell to have a good run in this competition given all the years in the 2000s Man. United knocked us out in the 3rd round.

Watch us get one of the Manchester clubs away in the 4th round! 2015 was our time to win it.

[One For The Road]

2 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Reality is the second string of these sides now are far better than any club below premier league (and better than many in the bottom half) 

Which is precisely why I'd go full strength all the way.

[VillaChris]

I do really really want to beat Spurs though. We have 0% chance of that if Jack and McGinn are both suspended, even a point would be near impossible. Targett out and Son running at Taylor wouldn't be a great look either.

Feels like in last year we've been putting our long jinxs against teams to the sword with the wins v Liverpool and Arsenal at VP. Man. United is just a lost cause however we play.

Haven't beaten Spurs since NYD 2008 at home incredibly and the VP game last season still stings with how we lost it so I want a full strength team out for that one to put things right given they haven't won any of their last four away games, three to teams below us in the league table.

Edited January 6, 2021 by VillaChris

[The Fun Factory]

53 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

We'll see. Surely league cup would've been one they'd have just binned off but here we have Spurs and one of the Manchester clubs in the final.

Reality is the second string of these sides now are far better than any club below premier league (and better than many in the bottom half) so you don't get the shocks you used in this competition bar a lower league side really overperforming and getting a replay.

I think of all the major teams we could've played in this round Liverpool is the best one given they don't care about domestic cups under Klopp so good chance to knock out one of them and then hopefully get some more home draws and lower league clubs.

In our last run to the final we played Blackpool home, Bournemouth home (when they weren't premier league), Leicester home (when they were rock bottom of the league) and West Brom home so you always need the luck of the draw element aswell to have a good run in this competition given all the years in the 2000s Man. United knocked us out in the 3rd round.

Watch us get one of the Manchester clubs away in the 4th round! 2015 was our time to win it.

Yes I remember 2015 we had such a flukely draw until the semi final when we somehow beat Liverpool. That was my best moment for Villa between MON leaving and Deano getting the job though that was  very slim pickings. Lets just pretend the final didn't happen.

Edited January 6, 2021 by The Fun Factory

[PaulC]

52 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

We'll see. Surely league cup would've been one they'd have just binned off but here we have Spurs and one of the Manchester clubs in the final.

Reality is the second string of these sides now are far better than any club below premier league (and better than many in the bottom half) so you don't get the shocks you used in this competition bar a lower league side really overperforming and getting a replay.

I think of all the major teams we could've played in this round Liverpool is the best one given they don't care about domestic cups under Klopp so good chance to knock out one of them and then hopefully get some more home draws and lower league clubs.

In our last run to the final we played Blackpool home, Bournemouth home (when they weren't premier league), Leicester home (when they were rock bottom of the league) and West Brom home so you always need the luck of the draw element aswell to have a good run in this competition given all the years in the 2000s Man. United knocked us out in the 3rd round.

Watch us get one of the Manchester clubs away in the 4th round! 2015 was our time to win it.

I think we have more chance of winning it this year given we haver a better team than in 2015. We can compete against the top teams we have proved that but if we beat Liverpool we do need a favourable draw. Wouldn't want to draw Man city. 

[WakefieldVillan]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

We can win this game without playing our absolute first choice team y'know. What would you be saying if Jack, McGinn and Targett had all been booked and suspended for this (perhaps as I'm still not sure on the suspension rules), don't even bother turning up for the game?

There still seems to be this lingering perception on here that we'll crash and burn and lose any game 5-0 if we even make 3 changes. Just last week we got a well earned draw at Chelsea with Traore, Hause and AEG all playing.

Last two were seen as joke figures on here two months ago.

Certainly wouldn't go as far as suggesting likes of Lansbury involved as he'd done here but it's all about the strategic decision to make, how do we put out a team capable of beating Liverpool while also making sure we give players a breather who need it so to give us a chance of getting some points off Spurs and Everton in the next week.

Anyone who saw Ollie in the second half v Man. United will have seen he was running on fumes at the end of that so he certainly needs taking out for a game and this feels like the right one to me. Can always bring him on the hour mark and he'll score his standard hat trick against this lot.

Think some more trust needs to be shown in our squad players sometimes. They haven't let us down so far this season have they? Hourihane is done here aswell and he played well in the opening two games of the season so he's played a part aswell. Need to get out of this mindset in thinking we only have 11 players at the club capable of digging out results against decent teams.

I think the worry that @One For The Road may have, along with a few others that are wanting us to go with a strong side is that if we make too many changes then we may come unstuck and to be fair that would be a real shame given we are capable this season of beating anyone on our day, we've proved that - and it would be absolutely massive to get an FA Cup trophy after such a long time. I hate the fact the the blues fans have the 2011 league cup success and our last success was back in the 90's (play-offs aside) and it would really shut them up once and for all (ok, perhaps not, but you know where I am coming from). Obviously there is a long way to go, even if we take care of the scousers but with a bit of a kind draw there is no reason at all why we can't be the ones lifting the cup on May 15th (with supporters or not).

Against Stoke in the League Cup our starting eleven was Steer, Guilbert, Elmo, Hause, Taylor, Lansbury, Nakamba, Ramsey, Traore, Davis, El Ghazi - we were pretty dreadful that night and Stoke fully deserved to progress. I fear if we choose a similar side (perhaps Hourihane for Lansbury) then I think it will be an early exit. Which will be a shame - But probably fine for some. I do trust most of our fringe players, but only when they come into an already strong team. That's why the balance is key for me for this one. 

[wedge]

Suspensions from this season only count in the competition they were given in. So if Grealish/McGinn played and got booked v Liverpool on Friday they would still be eligible for Premier League games.

[VillaChris]

With cup draws you really want to avoid the favourites under the last 4 or final (as you'd have to be incredibly lucky indeed not to play anyone major in the cup final)

With our 94 and 96 cup wins we only played one prem team (Arsenal) before the final and I think none before SF in 1996. 2000 was harder as we had Southampton, Leeds and Everton in successive rounds.

When you look at recent times our best chance was 2013 given we had a flipping league 2 team over two legs in the SF and then Swansea would've been the finalists. They had a good team back then but you'd rather play them than Chelsea in the final.

Unforgivable stuff from Lambert.

[VillaChris]

8 minutes ago, WakefieldVillan said:

I think the worry that @One For The Road may have, along with a few others that are wanting us to go with a strong side is that if we make too many changes then we may come unstuck and to be fair that would be a real shame given we are capable this season of beating anyone on our day, we've proved that - and it would be absolutely massive to get an FA Cup trophy after such a long time. I hate the fact the the blues fans have the 2011 league cup success and our last success was back in the 90's (play-offs aside) and it would really shut them up once and for all (ok, perhaps not, but you know where I am coming from). Obviously there is a long way to go, even if we take care of the scousers but with a bit of a kind draw there is no reason at all why we can't be the ones lifting the cup on May 15th (with supporters or not).

Against Stoke in the League Cup our starting eleven was Steer, Guilbert, Elmo, Hause, Taylor, Lansbury, Nakamba, Ramsey, Traore, Davis, El Ghazi - we were pretty dreadful that night and Stoke fully deserved to progress. I fear if we choose a similar side (perhaps Hourihane for Lansbury) then I think it will be an early exit. Which will be a shame - But probably fine for some. I do trust most of our fringe players, but only when they come into an already strong team. That's why the balance is key for me for this one. 

I'm not suggesting putting out anything like that Stoke team.

My one still has Mings, Konsa, Cash, Doug all in it so key first team players there. Also keep playing Traore and AEG as they're in good goalscoring form so think that's enough regular first team players or ones massively in form to give Liverpool a serious game.

In pretty much every other circumstance I'd be starting Martinez just to keep the solid defensive unit going but get the feeling Heaton will be demanding to go on loan from next week if he dosen't start so would rather keep him around second half of the season just in case.

Wouldn't start likes of Gulibert or Taylor as they simply haven't played in months, indeed their last minutes played was probably the Stoke game and that was over three months ago now.

Edited January 6, 2021 by VillaChris

[WakefieldVillan]

On 02/01/2021 at 14:34, VillaChris said:

Don't see Liverpool playing a strong team at all.

This is what they put out at Wolves two years back in this round:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46718633

Stronger than I thought but still had Camacho, Hoever (who's now actually at Wolves) and Curtis Jones all starting.

They're playing Southampton on Monday aswell so will have less time than us to prepare. Given they're barely got any CBs fit I can't see them starting Fabiano and think all 3 of their strikers will be on bench or rested like the Wolves one. Mane is the key one we don't want playing.

As for us most unpredictable team selection of the season for a major game. Think Ollie needs a rest and I'd also have McGinn and Jack on the bench as we really need both for the Spurs game and I presume both would be out if they get booked.

Would go with:

                                               Heaton

Cash                   Konsa             Mings       Targett

                                  Luiz         Nakamba

            Traore              Barkley          AEG

                                       Davis

Enough rotation and enough regular picks plus the wide players are in good form so I'd be confident with that selection. I assume though from DS comments Barkley won't make this game either so would give Ramsey a start in that case.

 

On 03/01/2021 at 09:38, WakefieldVillan said:

Really difficult one to decide how to approach this one. We will have had 7 days rest by the time this comes around so no problems in that respect, but then 3 tough matches in 7 days is slightly concerning in respect of players fatigue. The City rearranged game has made the selection for this more difficult but Liverpool playing on Monday evening certainly should help our chances so pros and cons. In an ideal world I would like to rest our current spine (Martinez, Konsa, Mings, Luiz, McGinn, Grealish, Watkins) but I think that if we do that we will struggle to beat whichever Liverpool team they put out. Therefore I would go with something like this; 

                        Heaton

Elmo/Fred    Konsa    Mings      Targett

               Ramsey     Hourihane

                         Barkley

Traore              Davis            Grealish 

 

If Barkley isn't ready yet then Luiz/Nakamba in with Ramsey further forward.  

Winning breeds confidence, and I think that we have a team that can beat anyone on our day so we shouldn't just write this competition off. We are also a young side and these are all very fit athletes so will all be wanting to play in every game. 

Hopefully we have enough to win, and if we're in a good position we can bring off the likes of Jack after an hour.

UTV 

@VillaChris just looked at start of this thread and tbh we are totally on the same wavelength with the approach to this one 

Only noticeable difference is with Jack - And I would understand anyone that would think it would be best to wrap him in cotton wool for this one. I just think we are a totally different animal with him so would start him and sub him after the hour mark (3-0 up)  

[One For The Road]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

I do really really want to beat Spurs though. We have 0% chance of that if Jack and McGinn are both suspended, even a point would be near impossible. Targett out and Son running at Taylor wouldn't be a great look either.

Feels like in last year we've been putting our long jinxs against teams to the sword with the wins v Liverpool and Arsenal at VP. Man. United is just a lost cause however we play.

Haven't beaten Spurs since NYD 2008 at home incredibly and the VP game last season still stings with how we lost it so I want a full strength team out for that one to put things right given they haven't won any of their last four away games, three to teams below us in the league table.

My final words on this are as follows:

1. The Spurs game represents just 3 points from the remaining 69 available to us. 

2. Beating Liverpool puts us 1/6th of the way to the final, whilst eliminating the English champions.

3. The players on yellows could just as easily have been booked at Old Trafford but they didn't.

4. The same players may well get booked against Spurs and miss Everton. Whichever game they miss will be important. 

5. Even IF both Jack and SJM were suspended,  I can't possibly accept that we would have "zero chance" of beating Spurs. One of our best games last season was the (ironically) Liverpool home game that Jack didn't play in.

6. Its the FA Cup.

7. We have put 12 goals past Liverpool on our last 2 games at VP and you could multiply that by a thousand and it still wouldn't be enough to make up for the shit we have had off them over the years. (Just the thought of Gerrard sliding on his knees towards the away end makes me boil with rage)

8. None of this matters because I don't pick the team. In Deano we trust.

 

[TRO]

On 02/01/2021 at 14:21, useless said:

I think Liverpool will play a stronger team than people are predicting and will be favorites to beat us, but we still should be giving it a go, this year more than any other in a long time we've shown we can compete with the better teams so in theory should be more confident than we've been for a long time that we can go all the way in this competition.

You've got to try and win the trophy we have the most realisitic chance of winning, especially whilst we have a good team playing well, not saying we won't have one next season but can't take it for granted, so have to make the most of this one while we can, what a waste it would be to throw this competition away for the sake of finishing a few places higher in the league, which wouldn't even be guaranteed anyway, whereas winnning the FA Cup would be our biggest honour since winning the European Cup and isn't all that unrealistic.

I'd take finishing seventeen and winning the FA Cup over finishing second in the league.

 

 

I wouldn't.

The FA Cup is great to win exciting and all that.....The league is consistency and epitomises progress, more accurately.

Edited January 6, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

I hope I am wrong, but this time, I don't see Liverpool affording us as much time and space as they did last time....I think it will be tough, this time.

[One For The Road]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

I wouldn't.

The FA Cup is great to win exciting and all that.....The league is consistency and epitomises progress, more accurately.

I'm sorry but I disagree. Sheffield United and Burnley have both pushed for Europe in recent seasons and look at them now. Conversely, other than Portsmouth, FA Cup winners tend to continue to be successful. 

On that note,  ask any Pompey fan if they'd swap that day for PL status and they will give you an resounding no. 

And we aren't Portsmouth. We can win this cup and even if the extra 5 games somehow devastated our squad and riddled us with injuries, still finish significantly higher than last season.

Now THAT, is progress.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, One For The Road said:

I'm sorry but I disagree. Sheffield United and Burnley have both pushed for Europe in recent seasons and look at them now. Conversely, other than Portsmouth, FA Cup winners tend to continue to be successful. 

On that note,  ask any Pompey fan if they'd swap that day for PL status and they will give you an resounding no. 

And we aren't Portsmouth. We can win this cup and even if the extra 5 games somehow devastated our squad and riddled us with injuries, still finish significantly higher than last season.

Now THAT, is progress.

lets agree to disagree....its opinions.

now Both would be nice FA Cup & 2nd in the League.

[One For The Road]

Just now, TRO said:

lets agree to disagree....its opinions.

now Both would be nice FA Cup & 2nd in the League.

This forum is nothing if not opinions. I respect your view as always.

Your second sentence is exactly what I have said all along. It's not a binary proposition. Who says going strong on the cup means we must automatically fail in the league?

Anyway, watch us go full strength and get knocked out after all this chat. Lol

 

[TRO]

18 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

I'm sorry but I disagree. Sheffield United and Burnley have both pushed for Europe in recent seasons and look at them now. Conversely, other than Portsmouth, FA Cup winners tend to continue to be successful. 

On that note,  ask any Pompey fan if they'd swap that day for PL status and they will give you an resounding no. 

And we aren't Portsmouth. We can win this cup and even if the extra 5 games somehow devastated our squad and riddled us with injuries, still finish significantly higher than last season.

Now THAT, is progress.

They sure do, when the the last 25 years of FA cup winners have featured heavily the so called top 6 in the League.....it follows like night follows day.

Only Wigan and Portsmouth have defied that and defied your claim, highlighted.....now if you ask them, with their limited expectations of league positions, sure they would say FA cup.

If you finish in consistenly high places in the League, the chances are exponentially raised of winning the FA Cup.....If you go a further 25 years back a similar picture emerges, the best teams in the league, occupy the winners column...in the main.

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by TRO

[One For The Road]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

the best teams in the league, occupy the winners column...in the main.

 

I rest my case.

[cb_82]

39 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

On a side note. How f****** depressing is it that football has got to the point when Aston Villa v Liverpool in the FA Cup 3rd round even warrants a debate of resting players. 

I accept that it DOES warrant the debate but it just seems so sad that we've got this point.

It seemed to start with Man United pulling out of the competition to play in Brazil, and then got worse as the semi finals moved to Wembley, killing the kudos of reaching the final. 

Then there was the 5pm kick offs, the scheduling of the final before the league had finished and then of course came the big money for each PL place. 

The FA Cup used to mean everything.  Now even fans of midtable clubs want to play the reserves. Sad times.

Totally agree, Villa fans saying that the cup can wait or would rather finish 5th/6th - We have won nothing since 96 and haven't won the FA Cup since 1957!!!!!!!!!

 

I just cant get my head round it, give me 12th place and an FA Cup win anyway, you still get Europe but you win something and players on our books get to experience that winning feeling and are probably less likely to go off elsewhere quitehite yet

 

1996 when we last won a trophy we were 4th in the league, league cup winners and semis of the FA Cup & we played a near full strength team throughout pretty much all of that and our squad was limited - What's changed?

[darrenm]

For the future sustainability of the club we absolutely have to have the highest league position possible, mainly for the statement of where we're going. If we finish in the European places in the season after almost staying up and spending money while recruiting wisely, we're showing we're back in the big and successful clubs group. Players like Jack, Douglas and Ross will have less of a reason to go elsewhere to get success. I don't think you can argue against that.

Whether you think having a good cup run helps or hinders that is another matter.

Edited January 6, 2021 by darrenm