Transgenderism

[lapal_fan]

11 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Not really 'woke', just correct.

Agreed, but it wasn't exactly put in the most accommodating ways, was it? 

Just condescending. 

[HanoiVillan]

27 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Agreed, but it wasn't exactly put in the most accommodating ways, was it? 

Just condescending. 

I didn't read it that way, but I suppose I can see how you might. I guess the flipside is that people have felt that 'his/her' was being deliberately provocative/trollish (though again, I didn't read it that way).

[YouUnastanFren]

21 hours ago, PaulC said:

Just read that Ellen Page now wants to identify as Elliot Page. Just wonder what effect this will have on his/her acting career?

Well for a start it'll give him more leverage when it's time to negotiate his pay package.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sne]

Quote

Actor and comedian Eddie Izzard has come forward to reveal that she will use “she” and “her” pronouns from here on out.

Izzard made the announcement while making an appearance on the Sky Arts’ Portrait Artist of the Year, a competition series where artists are challenged to create a portrait of three famous subjects. In this case, one of them was Izzard.

During her appearance, Izzard said, “I try to do things that I think are interesting. This is the first program I’ve asked if I can be ‘she’ and ‘her’ — this is a little transition period.”

This was a liberating moment for Izzard who added that it “feels great” to reveal her pronouns. On stage and off, Izzard is known for wearing makeup and outfits that are traditionally seen by many as womenswear. In the past, she has identified as a trans person and has been a leader when it comes to LGTBQ+ advocacy. “I’m gender fluid,” she said. “I just want to be based in girl mode from now on.

https://theworldnews.net/us-news/eddie-izzard-now-using-she-her-pronouns-i-just-want-to-be-based-in-girl-mode-from-now-on

[Chindie]

Lindsay Ellis digs into the history of transphobia in pop culture, and argues that has actually developed the transphobia narrative.

It's a good watch. It criticises Rowling, unsurprisingly.

[Chindie]

Meanwhile Graham Linehan continues to burn whatever little is left of his reputation...

...Christ.

[Brumerican]

33 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Meanwhile Graham Linehan continues to burn whatever little is left of his reputation...

...Christ.

You know when some people are super homophobic because deep down they are gay.

At one point does the irony become a cry for help ?

Such a weird hill to die on.

[KenjiOgiwara]

On 03/12/2020 at 18:35, StefanAVFC said:

Yep, there is no his/her. It's his or he. 

Completely disagree.

She is a she. She might identify as a he, we respect people and adress them as such (most people do anyway), but that doesn't change what you by nature are.

[chrisp65]

2 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Completely disagree.

She is a she. She might identify as a he, we respect people and adress them as such (most people do anyway), but that doesn't change what you by nature are.

Nature may not be quite as binary as you would like to imagine.

[KenjiOgiwara]

57 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Nature may not be quite as binary as you would like to imagine.

What's your point? 

[Chindie]

9 hours ago, Brumerican said:

You know when some people are super homophobic because deep down they are gay.

At one point does the irony become a cry for help ?

Such a weird hill to die on.

I don't think he's actually projecting his own self resentment. I think he's just disappeared down a rabbit hole and keeps doubling down. He got kick back for an episode of a show he wrote that was transphobic, and then got validation from a group that was against those that kicked back at him, and he became so enamoured with that praise he's just kept going, ruining his reputation, torpedoing his career, to the extent he's now trawling lesbian dating apps to call out people he believes shouldn't be there.

[chrisp65]

36 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

What's your point? 

Exactly what I’ve said. Nature is not always a simple binary.

Perhaps for the vast majority it is. In my personal case, it is. I have all the male physical kit and none of the female physical kit, and i think like a fairly standard heterosexual male (as far as I can tell). So I’m content to be ‘male’. I think the majority probably fall in to this category, be it ‘obviously male’ or ‘obviously female’.

But then there are blurs for some people, physical and emotional blurs. From those people assigned a sex at birth by doctors or parents that wanted to make a decision to keep things simple, to people that later in life challenge the norms.

It’s not binary. It usually is, but not always, and that should be fine. 

[Ingram85]

Speaking honestly, I can’t wrap my head around it all. I don’t know enough about the subject to have any truly informed opinion. Therefore my opinion is that if someone is doing something that makes them happy and more comfortable with themselves then I’m all for it. My 80’s/90’s upbringing might cause clashes in my brain but overall I always come to the same conclusion, if it makes someone else happy and more secure and causes less mental anguish or more serious negative thoughts to identify as what they have decided they are then who the **** am I to say otherwise?

I do admittedly struggle with the whole concept but then my struggles with trying to understand it are completely outweighed by the struggles of someone actually going through it so any ‘opinion’ I have  is null and void. Luckily, my opinion always circles round to ‘if it makes you happy then you do you and I always strive to support you and learn about the subject to improve myself as a person to better support you’

We live in a world where nature can make some species of animal actually change gender to help counter any imbalances. That should tell us that binary choices like male or female are so not set in stone. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Ingram85

[KenjiOgiwara]

58 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Exactly what I’ve said. Nature is not always a simple binary.

Perhaps for the vast majority it is. In my personal case, it is. I have all the male physical kit and none of the female physical kit, and i think like a fairly standard heterosexual male (as far as I can tell). So I’m content to be ‘male’. I think the majority probably fall in to this category, be it ‘obviously male’ or ‘obviously female’.

But then there are blurs for some people, physical and emotional blurs. From those people assigned a sex at birth by doctors or parents that wanted to make a decision to keep things simple, to people that later in life challenge the norms.

It’s not binary. It usually is, but not always, and that should be fine. 

 I still don't understand your comment. As someone that's studied natural sciences for most of my life, I know how complex and diverse it can be, but this isn't one of them methinks. You can look at different attributes, traits, properties and data, but however way you look at it. She is a she. We can call her a he, but she is a she. That's just how it is. 

I know it's a controversial subject now where it's PC to stick your head in the sand and say 'aye, fine, you are what you feel like.' But you're not. Especially in her/his/Paige's case it seems fairly obvious. At least based on the little I've read so far. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[chrisp65]

9 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

 I still don't understand your comment. As someone that's studied natural sciences for most of my life, I know how complex and diverse it can be, but this isn't one of them methinks. You can look at different attributes, traits, properties and data, but however way you look at it. She is a she. We can call her a he, but she is a she. That's just how it is. 

I know it's a controversial subject now where it's PC to stick your head in the sand and say 'aye, fine, you are what you feel like.' But you're not. Especially in her/his/Paige's case it seems fairly obvious. At least based on the little I've read so far. 

OK, that’s interesting. I’d have to confess, I know very little about that named individual, I’m certainly not privy to any medical or emotional detail. I also have no interest in finding out any detail. I was coming at the subject from a more general perspective than one specific individual.

I would suggest that there’s a chance you don’t know sufficient information about this specific person to be quite so categorical. That’s just a hunch, you might have access to all manner of case notes and back story for all I know.

Out of curiosity, for my own education as you have studied natural sciences, what would you say are the key things that make you so confident that a she is a she? In any case, not just this one. As a sort of bluffers guide, what do I need to look out for?

[StefanAVFC]

The brain is a mental thing. Nothing to do with it is binary.

If it was we'd all be straight liking the same foods, same TV shows, same looking partners etc etc 

Edited February 23, 2021 by StefanAVFC

[Ingram85]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

 I still don't understand your comment. As someone that's studied natural sciences for most of my life, I know how complex and diverse it can be, but this isn't one of them methinks. You can look at different attributes, traits, properties and data, but however way you look at it. She is a she. We can call her a he, but she is a she. That's just how it is. 

I know it's a controversial subject now where it's PC to stick your head in the sand and say 'aye, fine, you are what you feel like.' But you're not. Especially in her/his/Paige's case it seems fairly obvious. At least based on the little I've read so far. 

Is a name a physical construct? Reminds me of the whole retarded debate about the word ‘marriage’ and those backward types who think gay people can’t legally be ‘married’ because of the religious roots of the word. If Elliot Page mentally feels like a man trapped in a female body then who are you to demand she not be recognised as a ‘he’. Is it just the physical side that counts? Is it just the cock and balls for want of a better term? What about men who have had cancer and lost stuff? An accident resulting in the removing of stuff? Are they not ‘he’ anymore? Because in their head they are but physically they aren’t anymore? 

[KenjiOgiwara]

51 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

OK, that’s interesting. I’d have to confess, I know very little about that named individual, I’m certainly not privy to any medical or emotional detail. I also have no interest in finding out any detail. I was coming at the subject from a more general perspective than one specific individual.

I would suggest that there’s a chance you don’t know sufficient information about this specific person to be quite so categorical. That’s just a hunch, you might have access to all manner of case notes and back story for all I know.

Out of curiosity, for my own education as you have studied natural sciences, what would you say are the key things that make you so confident that a she is a she? In any case, not just this one. As a sort of bluffers guide, what do I need to look out for?

Agree completely, but I think in general my comment stands on it's own. There are parameters we define genders on. Parameters we can measure. As Stefan says, the brain is a mental thing, and that's partly true, but that's not how we define genders in the natural world. I fully understand the need to be adressed as what you identify as, but that doesn't change what you are. Gender in itself is fundamentally binary, and anyone saying other wise is IMO just confused. But feel free to convince me otherwise. 

I think people need to differentiate between the fundamental aspect here and what's mental. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

14 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Is a name a physical construct? Reminds me of the whole retarded debate about the word ‘marriage’ and those backward types who think gay people can’t legally be ‘married’ because of the religious roots of the word. If Elliot Page mentally feels like a man trapped in a female body then who are you to demand she not be recognised as a ‘he’. Is it just the physical side that counts? Is it just the cock and balls for want of a better term? What about men who have had cancer and lost stuff? An accident resulting in the removing of stuff? Are they not ‘he’ anymore? Because in their head they are but physically they aren’t anymore? 

What on earth are you talking about? I'm fine calling him or her whatever is preferable as long as it's respectable, like I said all along if you would read before you wrote. That doesn't change what she and he most likely is, without me being her personal doctor. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[chrisp65]

So what happens when somebody is born with ovaries and testicles?

What happens when early fusion of an XX and an XY chromosome embryo happens and the baby is born ‘intersex’?

There is a grey area, whether it’s convenient or not.