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Relegation chase 2020/21


MaVilla

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6 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

It's like which season would you rather take? Arsenal's invincible season or Man Utd treble season? Sure Arsenal's season looks good on paper. Never defeated right? But you don't get multiple titles for being undefeated. I'd take Man Utd's season any day of the week. And i would also swap our season with Norwich as winning the league is a much bigger achievement.

No. It's like saying winning a semi-final second leg 4-0 (and then going on to win the cup) was only needed because you'd lost the first leg 2-0. It's a bizarre thing to focus on. Who'd focus on the first leg and not the end product? What matters is the end product.

The end product was we got promoted. Dean took us from 14th in October to promoted in May. And then we survived in the PL the next season, and then the season after he brought us to safety (40 points) with thirteen games to go. Facts.

Absolute madness you banging on about a poor run of games (poor, but not remarkable -- we lost 4 out of 14 -- i.e. only 29%) in comparison to a record-smashing sequence that resulted in promotion. Madness.

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5 minutes ago, Enda said:

No. It's like saying winning a semi-final second leg 4-0 (and then going on to win the cup) was only needed because you'd lost the first leg 2-0. It's a bizarre thing to focus on. Who'd focus on the first leg and not the end product? What matters is the end product.

The end product was we got promoted. Dean took us from 14th in October to promoted in May. And then we survived in the PL the next season, and then the season after he brought us to safety (40 points) with thirteen games to go. Facts.

Absolute madness you banging on about a poor run of games (poor, but not remarkable -- we lost 4 out of 14 -- i.e. only 29%) in comparison to a record-smashing sequence that resulted in promotion. Madness.

I'm not banging on the poor run of games.

I'm bringing it up to highlight the season was somewhat overrated.

Finishing 5th in the Championship isn't anything special. Many bad teams with average coaches have managed to do that.

Finishing 17th last season was job done. Nothing spectacular.

Finishing in the top 10 this reason would be a good season but again. Nothing spectacular with the squad of players we have.

Next season will be the big one for Smith. If we don't at least challenge for the European places next season he will be under pressure.

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2 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

I'm not banging on the poor run of games.

I'm bringing it up to highlight the season was somewhat overrated.

Finishing 5th in the Championship isn't anything special. Many bad teams with average coaches have managed to do that.

Finishing 17th last season was job done. Nothing spectacular.

Finishing in the top 10 this reason would be a good season but again. Nothing spectacular with the squad of players we have.

Next season will be the big one for Smith. If we don't at least challenge for the European places next season he will be under pressure.

Over the past 10-15 years, how many managers do you think have taken over midtable Championship teams and got them promoted under a year?

Over the last 10-15 years, how many teams who finished 17th do you think progressed to top half the next year?

Serious questions.

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Just now, Enda said:

Over the past 10-15 years, how many managers do you think have taken over midtable Championship teams and got them promoted under a year?

Over the last 10-15 years, how many teams who finished 17th do you think progressed to top half the next year?

Serious questions.

How many of these promoted teams have spent £200M+ on players in just 2 seasons?

Serious question.

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6 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Main point is we've outspent them in only 2 summers to what they've spent the past 5 years. You mention they can spend 20M on players. Sure, but we are still outspending them in terms of net spend and by a pretty significant amount as well. 19/20 season we spent £159M on players they spent £74M

This season we spent £98M on players they spent £28M

If we spend at the current rate we will have spent more than double of the amount of them in the next 3 seasons.

Again. It's a very different job. Smaller club. Different expectations. Smaller budget. I find it hard to compare Villa and Brighton.

Compare us with Newcastle. Compare us with Everton. Compare us with West Ham. Not the likes of Brighton and Bournemouth.

Really is like comparing a bicycle to a motor cycle. Completely different things. Not just in terms of money but a bit of everything. Ceiling is just much higher at Villa.

Yeah they didn't spend much this summer but last summer they got in Webster for 20 odd million (so comparable to Mings), Maupay for 20m (so comparable to Wes) and most of our other deals were in 7-10m range bar Luiz and Konsa.

Summer 2018 which was their first year after staying up (so same for us last summer) they signed Bernardo for 9m, Yves Bissouma for 15m, The Iran winger for 17m (can't even spell it after reading it off soccerbase!) and Martin Montoya for 6m.

In total they spent 64m the year after their first season staying up.

You say compare us to Everton...don't really get that point as Everton are largely a top half team even while disappointing in last 6-7 years so established base they have to work with.

Everton spending from summer 2016:

103m

2017- 140m

2018- 115m

2019- 83m

2020- 86m

I genuinely didn't make those figures up, that's what they've spent for last 5 summers yet we should be compared to them more than Brighton?!:bang:

We should only be compared to Everton when we start spending 40m on established first team players like they've done with Sigurdsson and Richarlison.

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2 hours ago, villalad21 said:

How many of these promoted teams have spent £200M+ on players in just 2 seasons?

Serious question.

Sheffield United spent over 100m since promotion.

Wolves in summer 2018 actually spent 125m converting loans into permanents and Adama was 18m, Raul Jimenez 33m etc.

Fulham when they came up same summer spent 130m but learnt their lesson last summer.

It's pretty usual nowadays for promoted teams to come up and spend 100m + unless it's a Burnley or West Brom so I'm not sure why more should be demanded of us compared to some of those teams particularly with our short sighted policy of half of the team coming up being over 30 and not good enough for prem anyway.

Within next 5 years all prem teams will probably spend minimum of 100m and up to 200m every transfer window once things get back to normal. Ten teams will still finish bottom half despite that.

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On 09/03/2021 at 18:40, villalad21 said:

I'm not banging on the poor run of games.

I'm bringing it up to highlight the season was somewhat overrated.

Finishing 5th in the Championship isn't anything special. Many bad teams with average coaches have managed to do that.

Finishing 17th last season was job done. Nothing spectacular.

Finishing in the top 10 this reason would be a good season but again. Nothing spectacular with the squad of players we have.

Next season will be the big one for Smith. If we don't at least challenge for the European places next season he will be under pressure.

Painfully obvious. Lift your game. It's got to have an air of believability.

You're already wrong on Smith. It's over. Unlucky.

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On 09/03/2021 at 18:47, villalad21 said:

How many of these promoted teams have spent £200M+ on players in just 2 seasons?

Serious question.

Irrespective of money spent, Smith had to build a whole squad due to many years of mismanagement. It's skews our spend, without question. None of the mismanagement is on Smith. He's has completely recovered us as a side. 

I have a question for you and I know the answer... how many managers have taken a midtable championship side to a midtable premier league side, building a complete squad in the process, in 2 years?? Want me to help with the answer?? I can, honestly. 

You seem so intent on downplaying anything Smith does, and it takes away from valid points you have actually made recently. 

I firmly believe we could challenge top 4 next season and you would complain we finished 5th and not 4th.

Unless, of course, we change manager and bring Potter, Bielsa, Ancelotti in. I'm sure top 10 would be an incredible achievement then.  

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8 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

Irrespective of money spent, Smith had to build a whole squad due to many years of mismanagement. It's skews our spend, without question. None of the mismanagement is on Smith. He's has completely recovered us as a side. 

I have a question for you and I know the answer... how many managers have taken a midtable championship side to a midtable premier league side, building a complete squad in the process, in 2 years?? Want me to help with the answer?? I can, honestly. 

You seem so intent on downplaying anything Smith does, and it takes away from valid points you have actually made recently. 

I firmly believe we could challenge top 4 next season and you would complain we finished 5th and not 4th.

Unless, of course, we change manager and bring Potter, Bielsa, Ancelotti in. I'm sure top 10 would be an incredible achievement then.  

I have a sneaky suspicion we are going to spend lots of money during the summer transfer windows for the next few seasons at the minimum, consider us to be doing a slightly slower approach to how Man City went about becoming one of the title contenders.

We have the cash, infrastructure, fan base, history and owners who know that winning titles will bring in profits on their investments. 

Exciting times ahead. 

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10 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

 

I have a question for you and I know the answer... how many managers have taken a midtable championship side to a midtable premier league side, building a complete squad in the process, in 2 years?? Want me to help with the answer?? I can, honestly. 

 

It's taken Dean 3 seasons to get to where we are. Getting promote, staying up and this season hopefully just above midtable.

I can think of 2 without having to think, wolves and Leicester, 

We can however now just look upwards for the rest of this season as we are not getting relegated. The higher we finish the more money we get, the higher profile we get and the better players will come.

 

All looks good this end 👌🏼

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  • 1 month later...

West Brom seem to have improved just too late!, 2 point behind Fulham with a game in hand.

Unfortunately for Fulham & Barcodes they are what.......6 & 8 points behind 17th with 6 & 7 games to go, seems very unlikely they will pull off the great escape, especially with Brucie pulling the odd rabbit of points out of his hat from time to time.

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16 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

West Brom seem to have improved just too late!, 2 point behind Fulham with a game in hand.

Unfortunately for Fulham & Barcodes they are what.......6 & 8 points behind 17th with 6 & 7 games to go, seems very unlikely they will pull off the great escape, especially with Brucie pulling the odd rabbit of points out of his hat from time to time.

yeah not happening for either of those 2. fulham's bad start has ultimately cost them. shame because they actually try and play football but now we have another season of newcastle and burnley

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They've made it mildly interesting at least, would be the greatest of great escapes if they managed it. Burnley and Brighton might be more under threat than Newcastle but we'll see after a weekend when those 3, West Brom and Fulham all look destined to lose on paper (well, they are near the bottom of the table for a reason).

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5 hours ago, MaVilla said:

West Brom seem to have improved just too late!, 2 point behind Fulham with a game in hand.

Unfortunately for Fulham & Barcodes they are what.......6 & 8 points behind 17th with 6 & 7 games to go, seems very unlikely they will pull off the great escape, especially with Brucie pulling the odd rabbit of points out of his hat from time to time.

The funny thing for me is that Fat Sam is having success playing attacking football ! I think he is taking the other clubs by surprise !!

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We survived last season from a worse position than Albion are in now, we were seven points adrift with four games to go, they're six points adrift with seven games to go. And they've taken more points since Allardyce came in than we did over the same span of games last season, so they're actually in better form than we were going into the final games.

 

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6 hours ago, useless said:

We survived last season from a worse position than Albion are in now, we were seven points adrift with four games to go, they're six points adrift with seven games to go. And they've taken more points since Allardyce came in than we did over the same span of games last season, so they're actually in better form than we were going into the final games.

 

8 points adrift with a much worse goal difference so could call it 9. Still with 7 more games there is slight hope for them.

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