Ross Barkley

[tom_avfc]

17 minutes ago, TRO said:

No, I do take issue with it.

You keep saying Mental Health issues.....you have no evidence that Ross Barkley has Mental Health issues, but continue to refer to it......equally, I have no evidence, he hasn't......If I was of the slightest doubt, I would not of referred to his wages.

I accept, it wasn't one of my better lines, but I feel the reaction is mean and misrepresentative of my true self.

I’m not saying that Ross Barkley has mental health issues. Someone said that he looked on the verge of tears when he came off and you commented that maybe his wages will ease the pain. Whatever level of mental distress someone is in to say that the money they have will ease it is careless at best. You could have said this about anybody and the reaction would be the same.

As you say it’s not one of your better lines. I think people are just pointing out that it’s not a great thing to say and not accusing you of some massive crime. I’m sure everybody has made comments that in hindsight aren’t the best and it’s encouraging that we’re at a point where mental health is taken a lot more seriously than it has been in the past.

This is all pretty off topic now anyway. For whatever reason it hasn’t worked out well for Ross here and the early signs that he’d give us an extra dimension feel a long way off. 

[TRO]

I want to apologise on here, to anyone who was offended by my comments on Ross Barkley and referring to his wages as a compensating factor.

It was not meant with any malice or any disrespect to Mental Health in General.

I accept, I need to be more careful in my comments, particularly in relation to sarky comments of a personal nature.

I have to say, I am still disappointed in the reaction by some, in turning it in to and reference to ,something which was not intended anyway.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

I’m not saying that Ross Barkley has mental health issues. Someone said that he looked on the verge of tears when he came off and you commented that maybe his wages will ease the pain. Whatever level of mental distress someone is in to say that the money they have will ease it is careless at best. You could have said this about anybody and the reaction would be the same.

As you say it’s not one of your better lines. I think people are just pointing out that it’s not a great thing to say and not accusing you of some massive crime. I’m sure everybody has made comments that in hindsight aren’t the best and it’s encouraging that we’re at a point where mental health is taken a lot more seriously than it has been in the past.

This is all pretty off topic now anyway. For whatever reason it hasn’t worked out well for Ross here and the early signs that he’d give us an extra dimension feel a long way off. 

I don't want to comment on Ross Barkley any further.

[DCJonah]

16 minutes ago, TRO said:

If the cap fits wear it.....if it doesn't fit, then I apologise.

Maybe your post about fans abusing was just picked up by me at the wrong time and I put 2 & 2 together.

If that is not the case, I withdraw my comments to you.

You still have to have a dig don't you. I responded to @Keybladebecause I agreed with his point that the stick given to Barkley has been well over the top at times. 

Nothing to do with your post. Nothing to do with you. Calm down.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

If we are honest, lines like " I'm sure his bank balance will cheer him up " or " As he drives off in his luxury car to his mansion " etc. have been thrown around ( In jest ) many a time, at many a player/manager and/or character, and have never been ambushed like this.

It seems our level of " woke " is selective.

We might need a new thread with guidelines on what we can and can't banter about?

The majority of posters on here should know @TRO well enough as a poster by now, to realise he wouldn't intentionally try to make light of any sort of serious affliction. ( whether you agree with his posts in general or not )

I reckon people have gone OTT on this one.

If that comment was made a few weeks or a month ago, after he came off and was kicking things about, would the reaction have been the same at the passive comment?

We have now collectively decided that Ross Barkley might have mental health issues, so we aren't allowed to make any critical comments about him anymore? I'm confused. 

Edited May 15, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Zatman]

26 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

He has been shite, for whatever reason. 

What's a certainty is that he is very lucky there's no fans in the stands.

 

Sadly you could probably say this for a few of our players at the moment if fans were allowed in. Going by some of the social media crap you would think we were bottom on 9 points

[tom_avfc]

18 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

If we are honest, lines like " I'm sure his bank balance will cheer him up " or " As he drives off in his luxury car to his mansion " have been thrown around ( In jest ) many a time, at many a player/manager and/or character, and have never been ambushed like this.

It seems our level of " woke " is selective.

We might need a new thread with guidelines on what we can and can't banter about?

The majority of posters on here should know @TRO well enough as a poster by now, to realise he wouldn't intentionally try to make light of any sort of serious affliction. ( whether you agree with his posts in general or not )

I reckon people have gone OTT on this one.

If that comment was made a few weeks or a month ago, after he came off and was kicking things about, would the reaction have been the same at the passive comment?

We have now collectively decided that Ross Barkley might have mental health issues, so we aren't allowed to make any critical comments about him anymore? I'm confused. 

I think you could make the comment “his wages will ease his pain” or “his bank balance will cheer him up” and expect to be challenged on it in any players thread at any time on VillaTalk. There’s a pretty long thread on people’s own struggles with mental health in Off Topic and the fact that people can have serious discussions on the topic is encouraging.

People used to “joke” about all sorts of things that would be considered a bit inappropriate as attitudes change. Regardless of whether Ross Barkley has mental health issues it’s not great to suggest that money would resolve anybody’s issues.

Nobody is suggesting that TRO is intentionally causing offence just pointing out that the comment isn’t great.

If treating mental health seriously makes people “woke” then sign me up for the “woke” club, a word that I find as frustrating as when everyone was being called a “snowflake”.

 

[KenjiOgiwara]

30 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Sadly you could probably say this for a few of our players at the moment if fans were allowed in. Going by some of the social media crap you would think we were bottom on 9 points

For sure.  I think directed abuse on social media is not okay. But stick from the stands goes with the territory and priviledge of living their exceptionally simple life.

Edited May 15, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara

[HKP90]

I’d be interested to know how our performance coaching staff are regarded. I can imagine it was an element of the club that was not the highest priority when we got relegated, and it would be interesting to know how we’ve been investing in that side of things. 

[Villan_of_oz]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I don't want to comment on Ross Barkley any further.

This is my stance too...

[DCJonah]

56 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

If we are honest, lines like " I'm sure his bank balance will cheer him up " or " As he drives off in his luxury car to his mansion " etc. have been thrown around ( In jest ) many a time, at many a player/manager and/or character, and have never been ambushed like this.

It seems our level of " woke " is selective.

We might need a new thread with guidelines on what we can and can't banter about?

The majority of posters on here should know @TRO well enough as a poster by now, to realise he wouldn't intentionally try to make light of any sort of serious affliction. ( whether you agree with his posts in general or not )

I reckon people have gone OTT on this one.

If that comment was made a few weeks or a month ago, after he came off and was kicking things about, would the reaction have been the same at the passive comment?

We have now collectively decided that Ross Barkley might have mental health issues, so we aren't allowed to make any critical comments about him anymore? I'm confused. 

Why would you use the word woke in a negative context because more people are more aware of mental health issues these days? 

Surely that's a positive isn't it?

I don't think anyone claimed @TROdid it intentionally to dismiss mental health. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be pointed out that the link between money and being able to overcome mental health issues is bullshit. 

And your last paragraph shows you've completely ignored the point. You can criticise Barkley if you want. I think its been way OTT at times but so be it. The defensive response wasn't specifically about Barkley or really the criticism of any player or manager. It was the whole idea that we shouldn't have empathy for a guy feeling down because he earns a shit load of cash. Or that having loads of cash helps ease those issues. I think it should be pointed out.

 

[Mark Albrighton]

Mental health stuff aside, it’s the notion of when someone’s career is declining “Oh well, his millions will make it easier.”

Just a lazy musing, isn’t it? It’s suggesting that players are content in just cashing it in and have no real desire to be a success on the pitch. Like they don’t have a competitive edge to them of wanting to win things and being better players themselves. Of course, I’m sure there are some who are like that, but I generally try and refrain from thinking that about players unless I have reasonable cause to suspect it.

Basically their wages are too easy a stick to beat them with. “He played well/scored a goal today, did he? Well that is what he’s paid to do after all.” I’m sure we’ve all seen and heard that sort of comment here and elsewhere.

[Keyblade]

Intent doesn't really come into whether or not someone finds something offensive or hurtful. In a way, the flippant, oblivious remarks are often the ones that belie what someone really thinks compared to obviously inflammatory comments meant to get a rise out of people. Those can go either way.

[a m ole]

31 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Mental health stuff aside, it’s the notion of when someone’s career is declining “Oh well, his millions will make it easier.”

Just a lazy musing, isn’t it? It’s suggesting that players are content in just cashing it in and have no real desire to be a success on the pitch. Like they don’t have a competitive edge to them of wanting to win things and being better players themselves. Of course, I’m sure there are some who are like that, but I generally try and refrain from thinking that about players unless I have reasonable cause to suspect it.

Basically their wages are too easy a stick to beat them with. “He played well/scored a goal today, did he? Well that is what he’s paid to do after all.” I’m sure we’ve all seen and heard that sort of comment here and elsewhere.

And crucially, how pissed of with himself and the situation Ross has looked just goes to show that he’s not particularly comforted by the idea of the numbers in his bank account.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

53 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Why would you use the word woke in a negative context because more people are more aware of mental health issues these days? 

Surely that's a positive isn't it?

I don't think anyone claimed @TROdid it intentionally to dismiss mental health. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be pointed out that the link between money and being able to overcome mental health issues is bullshit. 

And your last paragraph shows you've completely ignored the point. You can criticise Barkley if you want. I think its been way OTT at times but so be it. The defensive response wasn't specifically about Barkley or really the criticism of any player or manager. It was the whole idea that we shouldn't have empathy for a guy feeling down because he earns a shit load of cash. Or that having loads of cash helps ease those issues. I think it should be pointed out.

 

I only used " woke " and placed it in quotation marks as I couldn't think of another term at the time. " Insert appropriate word "

@tom_avfc yes you are correct, we have to be more aware of these things, and not everything which was once thought of as " acceptable " still should be, and rightly so.

My fear is that we might find ourselves swinging the pendulum too hard and too fast, making a happy medium more difficult to find among posters.

We risk creating a toxic environment among ourselves, where people become apprehensive to post, as they are not sure if a joke or " banter " will be taken out of context.

I trust the majority of us on here are mature enough to know the lines of wrong and right.

What happens when I decide that a GIF of tits is sexist and offends me? Or someone making sexual innuendos about players makes me uncomfortable? As sexual harassment, trafficking etc are " Very real problems "?

What If someone quotes one of my posts and refers to me as Him, but that's not my chosen pronoun for the day?

Above examples are purposely exaggerated , but my point is, I think everybody needs to chill out a bit.

The sentiment of the opinions expressed are in good spirit, I just feel the delivery within the context has been OTT.

EDIT: Re Barkley, I also noted that, for the first time, after the match, that I felt sorry for him as well.

Edited May 15, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[a m ole]

8 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said:

I have had mental health issues since before I was 5, so about 40 years. It has affected my life massively and I have had to deal with many obstacles because of this. 

Those trying to play the mental health card in defence of Ross are looking for any excuses now, it's so wildly pathetic and downright disrespectful for ordinary people who suffer this shit everyday.

If his mental health is so bad that he can barely jog, barely put in the required effort, if it's so bad that is body language is shit then he should be getting professional help and should be removed from the squad to aid him in getting that help. 

I have to go to work everyday or else I don't earn enough coin to pay the bills, so do millions of other people suffering mental illness. Why is Ross so special, if I put in a poor effort at work no one says oh but Matt is depressed so that's the best he can do. Bullshit, soft headed mentality. And yes if anyone wants to have a go at me, I do feel like with everything I've been through in my life I do have the right to speak.

I have never used my mental health as an excuse for me not giving a f$@k. They're two completely different things.

Ill also add that in his privileged position he would have resources available to him that rest of us would only dream of having. 

 

 

It’s perspective - you think he can’t be arsed, can ‘barely jog’, is putting in ‘poor effort’, is ‘soft headed’, and assuming that the manager, the coaches, the performance staff and the sports psychologists we employ can’t see this. Wild hyperbole at best.

What we’re seeing is a player trying, struggling to find form and beating himself up about it.

The money he gets paid is entirely moot.

[rodders0223]

7 minutes ago, a m ole said:

It’s perspective - you think he can’t be arsed, can ‘barely jog’, is putting in ‘poor effort’, is ‘soft headed’, and assuming that the manager, the coaches, the performance staff and the sports psychologists we employ can’t see this. Wild hyperbole at best.

What we’re seeing is a player trying, struggling to find form and beating himself up about it.

The money he gets paid is entirely moot.

Is he trying? Beating himself up? He flaps his arms and complains about everyone on the team.

Maybe the bloke is just an arsehole

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Is he trying? Beating himself up? He flaps his arms and complains about everyone on the team.

Maybe the bloke is just an arsehole

Also possible. lol

[a m ole]

1 minute ago, rodders0223 said:

Is he trying? Beating himself up? He flaps his arms and complains about everyone on the team.

Maybe the bloke is just an arsehole

That’s your perspective, fine. If that’s the case, then all the aforementioned people are failing at their job. I tend to think that they mostly know what they’re doing as opposed to letting a cancer of a personality, who is on loan, stay in the starting XI.

Occam’s razor.

[blandy]

6 minutes ago, a m ole said:

What we’re seeing is a player trying, struggling to find form and beating himself up about it.

Yes. Look at his career. He came through at Everton and was their great hope and prospect. He moved to Chelsea and instead of progressing further, found himself left out and sidelined. Wanting to get his career back on the rails and return to the England team he came to Villa. He started well, got injured, then came the covid break and illness. When he got back into the side he was covering distance, but the form was gone completely. It sparked back for a game, but then dropped again. He knows that more than anyone else. He knows the aim of England has disappeared. His ambition has been thwarted. That’s going to hurt and it’s visible in his demeanour.

The standards in the Premier league are ridiculously high in terms of demand for skill, ability, fitness, effort, concentration, consistency and all the rest of it. Ditto the England side. Add in the condensed schedule of games, illness and injury and my sympathy towards players and managers is greater than for a normal season. As lucky as they all are to have such fantastic jobs and wages the demands on them are seriously high and that needs to be understood.

Couple all that with us normal folk, desperate for distraction and joy in this time of lockdowns and restrictions on our freedom and of illness and so on perhaps obsessing even more on football and our teams and players and you have another factor of pressure on the players. The clubs are all making losses, players contracts are running down and ending and they are competing for renewals in a time of less money. Those deemed surplus to requirements may have to drop down a level…but down a level everyone is really skint and can’t afford to take them on.  It’s an uncertain world for everyone.

The players are young, healthy, well paid beyond imagination, but they are also just as human as us pond life swimming around in our COVID swamp.

TL:DR - be nice, be understanding. Enjoy football, don’t let it make you angry or mean.