Spoony Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 2 hours ago, MNVillan said: I’m about to rant, but don’t take it personally. What you said I think is a very fair point. Barkley has shown he has quality going forward when he is among other quality (Jack). He’s also shown that he is not a talisman. Being around talented players makes you look better, no shock to anyone with half a brain. What bugs the f****** s*** out of me is that he doesn’t care if we concede. It shows when he “defends.” He’s the benefactor of quality play elsewhere. When things are going well for Aston Villa, they’re going well for Ross Barkley. When things are going bad for Aston Villa, they’re going bad for Ross Barkley. When we’re in a difficult position, hoping for Ross to bail us out is a fool’s errand. Not sure I completely agree with this analysis because the lad has been around a multi hundred million dollar Chelsea team and looks mostly shit. So if he’s meant to look good around talented players, he rely hasn’t proved that (unless I misunderstood your point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 8 hours ago, useless said: It was only a month or so back on here people on here were insisting that we have to sign him, and I remember around the same time seeing fans of other teams moaning that they missed out by not signing him. I feel like people are going over the top with criticism based on a few below performances, it's not as if he's been all bad, as an whole we've done very well so far this season as a team, and Barkley has played no small part in that. Is that true re Barkley being no small part in our season? Agreed it was a great signing, agreed we were all happy and agreed everyone was envious, but I’m pretty sure he’s played 5 decent games and been otherwise injured or shit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 It was said on this very forum, in the summer, that we should be looking to players at the 'big 4' and taking the ones on the fringes with a point to prove. We've been bitten more than once with this approach now. The signings we made from the championship, the ones which were criticised by certain posters, have been absolute stars. Obviously, getting the right one is always the most difficult. But, with correct scouting and going for players with the correct attitude, it can work. The players at the big clubs on the fringes are quite often on the fringes for a reason, they aren't good enough consistently due to attitude. I think we are finding that out with Ross now. All the talent in the world, he has. But he cannot perform on a regular basis. Big lessons to learn from last summer's transfer dealings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bose Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 He’s had plenty of chances and he has to be dropped against Leeds. Him playing would be suicide. If he has any ambition of still playing at a top level it’s up to him, he’ll have to earn that and grab the chance when it comes again. He’s become a liability and it’s pretty clear he’s not suddenly going to dig in and work harder without something changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul33 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 26 minutes ago, bose said: He’s had plenty of chances and he has to be dropped against Leeds. Him playing would be suicide. Leeds will work their bollards off against us so if Barkley plays then (a) we will lose badly and (b) it proves we are tied to a must play contract ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 9 hours ago, Thug said: Ive always considered a box to box midfielder as someone who is capable around both boxes. RB has never been someone capable of defending. in my opinion, he has always been a traditional number 10. He may well have been deployed as a box to box at times, but doesn’t make him a box to box player. His attributes make him useful in only one position, and that is in a number 10 role. Where his "attributes" aren't good enough.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Spoony said: but I’m pretty sure he’s played 5 decent games and been otherwise injured or shit... Both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 If Barkley starts the next game it will be the first time Dean Smith has pissed me off as a manager. He might be right in doing so, but it doesn't look good from a fans point of view should he start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 9 hours ago, useless said: It was only a month or so back on here people on here were insisting that we have to sign him, and I remember around the same time seeing fans of other teams moaning that they missed out by not signing him. I feel like people are going over the top with criticism based on a few below performances, it's not as if he's been all bad, as an whole we've done very well so far this season as a team, and Barkley has played no small part in that. I think people are going over the top with the "legend" of Ross Barkley. He was the next big thing at Everton. The next Rooney off their conveyer belt. He had half a decent season after he broke through and that was all it needed, the myth was born. He's been hyped and overrated his whole career. He seems to be onboard with the hysteria because he believes he's really good too. Look at the player and his contribution to the team effort over a several matches. Include the matches were we played well. Then judge the quality of Barkley. He's been objectively middling to poor during his time with us. I just don't get why everyone appears to be so invested in the "myth".... He's just not that good. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said: I think people are going over the top with the "legend" of Ross Barkley. He was the next big thing at Everton. The next Rooney off their conveyer belt. He had half a decent season after he broke through and that was all it needed, the myth was born. He's been hyped and overrated his whole career. He seems to be onboard with the hysteria because he believes he's really good too. Look at the player and his contribution to the team effort over a several matches. Include the matches were we played well. Then judge the quality of Barkley. He's been objectively middling to poor during his time with us. I just don't get why everyone appears to be so invested in the "myth".... He's just not that good. Where have people gone over the top? Where has the quotation "legend" been used? Where has 'everyone' been invested in the myth? A quick glance through this thread and I'd say 90% of it is that Barkley should be dropped. Doesn't exactly tie in with your post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottaloo Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 31 minutes ago, Paul33 said: Leeds will work their bollards off against us so if Barkley plays then (a) we will lose badly and (b) it proves we are tied to a must play contract ! This is what i am thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mjvilla said: It was said on this very forum, in the summer, that we should be looking to players at the 'big 4' and taking the ones on the fringes with a point to prove. We've been bitten more than once with this approach now. The signings we made from the championship, the ones which were criticised by certain posters, have been absolute stars. Obviously, getting the right one is always the most difficult. But, with correct scouting and going for players with the correct attitude, it can work. The players at the big clubs on the fringes are quite often on the fringes for a reason, they aren't good enough consistently due to attitude. I think we are finding that out with Ross now. All the talent in the world, he has. But he cannot perform on a regular basis. Big lessons to learn from last summer's transfer dealings. The incredibly obvious counterpoint to this is Emi Martinez, but someone like Jesse Lingard at West Ham also disproves it too. There's no magic formula to recruiting players - you can get some good ones from lower leagues, and some good ones from teams above you. Recruiting based on attitude seems a good idea but we do still get the occasional dud (like Ross). I think a lot just comes down to luck. Edited February 22, 2021 by Panto_Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mjvilla said: Where have people gone over the top? Where has the quotation "legend" been used? Where has 'everyone' been invested in the myth? A quick glance through this thread and I'd say 90% of it is that Barkley should be dropped. Doesn't exactly tie in with your post! I was responding to.... "I feel like people are going over the top with criticism based on a few below performances" I literally quoted that (and highlighted it) in my post. Edited February 22, 2021 by jimmygreaves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Panto_Villan said: The incredibly obvious counterpoint to this is Emi Martinez, but someone like Jesse Lingard at West Ham also disproves it too. There's no magic formula to recruiting players - you can get some good ones from lower leagues, and some good ones from teams above you. Recruiting based on attitude seems a good idea but we do still get the occasional dud (like Ross). I think a lot just comes down to luck. Yes, Martinez was obviously in my mind here. Feels different in respect to him though. The fans didn't want him to go, they wanted to keep him. Look at most of the others on the fringes and fans would be happy to see him go. Always felt like arsenal made a mistake letting Martinez go. Lingard, well I'll reserve judgement. Barkley was very good for us in the first few weeks. Lingard has played what, 4/5 games? He's had his attitude problems in that he makes it more about himself than football. Lets see how it gets on before we claim victory with that one. I think, generally, there's always exceptions to the rule... Mid career loans from the top clubs don't tend to work out too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Just now, Mjvilla said: Yes, Martinez was obviously in my mind here. Feels different in respect to him though. The fans didn't want him to go, they wanted to keep him. Look at most of the others on the fringes and fans would be happy to see him go. Always felt like arsenal made a mistake letting Martinez go. Lingard, well I'll reserve judgement. Barkley was very good for us in the first few weeks. Lingard has played what, 4/5 games? He's had his attitude problems in that he makes it more about himself than football. Lets see how it gets on before we claim victory with that one. I think, generally, there's always exceptions to the rule... Mid career loans from the top clubs don't tend to work out too well. I'll certainly grant you we should probably stop taking Chelsea midfielders on loan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said: I was responding to.... "I feel like people are going over the top with criticism based on a few below performances" I literally quoted that (and highlighted it) in my post. Yes, and that quote is something I agree with. Would you not agree that saying someone has single-handedly cost us 14 points this season is going over the top? Whereas your post, I haven't seen much of anything like that in this thread in the last 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted February 22, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2021 11 hours ago, GENTLEMAN said: Not as directly petulant as the ‘kicking of water bottles’. But left the pitch at far side from dugout pouting and talking trash to himself. Then preceded to strip off whilst sat on advertising hoarding. Taking off boots and socks before skulking back to bench. Took about 5 mins in total. It's ridiculous to me that people make anything out of this. He took his time, so what. If it helped him to be in a better state of mind then all the better. It's perfectly fine to criticize a player for running too slowly on the field, but to criticize him for walking too slowly off it is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Really think the mental side of it is lacking for him, I'd say he goes out with the best of intentions, he is a technically good player but I feel his ingame concentration and decision making levels slip as soon as the whistle blows. He is smart enough to know why he is being subbed and I think what looks like petulance is more like frustration in himself for not getting the job done. Deano needs to change it up, give someone else a good hour and then say go out there son and show us the best Ross we've seen so far. Anyone of SJM, Ramsey and Sanson can start for him, maybe SJM needs a different role and put Sanson with Luiz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 Not sure why legend is in quotes as I've never seen anyone call him a legend. There's a difference between thinking that a player is a 'legend', and thinking that overall they haven't been as bad as the current level of criticism would suggest, this is player that has won us several games, and has played in our best wins of the season, that doesn't mean to say I think we should sign him, or even that he shouldn't be rotated for a game or two, but he has played well for us, so no reason why he can't get back to that level of performance at some point. The way some talk you'd think he'd been as bad a loan signing as someone like Danny Drinkwater, I'd say overall he's done okay, and has been worth the loan, the problem is partly I think, that when he first joined some built him up to be better than he is, so are measuring him up against unrealistic expectations, another thing is that some don't seem to know what type of player he is, he was never going to be a 'box to box' type, that's not his game, he's always been someone who plays just behind the striker. I wonder where we'd be without his earlier season contribution, probably in a much worse place than we are now, and would only be too grateful to have current issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) I'm also not aware of anyone calling him a legend.... "Legend" a traditional story sometimes popularly regarded as historical but not authenticated. "the legend of King Arthur" ..... In this instance the legend, the myth, the fable is that Ross Barkley was once a good player. the reality is he's always been hyped and overrated. I'd go as far to say maybe the most overrated English player of his generation. Edited February 22, 2021 by jimmygreaves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts