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Ross Barkley


LondonLax

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2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I've calmed down a bit from my anger over his performance in the week, and I think the comments from the manager were very interesting after the game. 

Smith said he'd changed the shape and that having two eights rather than a ten hadn't worked - I think he's right on that and I think it tells us something about Ross Barkley.

The key to that is what I'm going to call four-line football - we've been describing football teams in three lines for as long as I can remember - 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4-3-3 - all of that stuff, but I think particularly in recent years, that's changed a bit. I think we need four lines to describe our midfielders.

So, against West Ham we played 4-1-4-1 with the four at the back, Luiz in front of them, Barkley, McGinn and the two wide midfielders in front of that and Watkins up front. Normally we'd play 4-2-3-1 with Luiz and McGinn both holding.

Now within that, I think McGinn and Luiz are both capable of playing in either the second or third lines - they can both play as part of the double pivot that's worked well with us this season or in the slightly advanced role that we've seen McGinn play in the past - a traditional number eight.

Barkley can't do that - the manager has pretty much confessed that Barkley can only play in that third line and only as a ten - which means in order to accommodate him, you need two holding midfielders. He's not going to do that work in the middle of the pitch, he's going to create and he's going to help you get goals high up the pitch, you need two other midfielders dedicated to doing the grimy stuff. We're very lucky (or smart) in that we have Watkins up top who takes a lot of pressure off the rest of the team with his running, without that effort, I think our third line would be a little more exposed.

With Traore and Grealish on the flanks, there's a limited amount of that hard graft that's going to come from elsewhere so it means that the pressure on that second line is huge - McGinn and Luiz need to cover a lot ground and do a lot of work to support all that creativity - against West Ham, we decided to give them more freedom and ask Ross to do more work - that isn't working - Ross doesn't have that in his locker.

So, having come to an understanding on his limitations, I'm a little more forgiving of Ross than I was during the week, but still not entirely convinced I'd want to keep him. I think with Sanson, against some teams we now have the ability to play a 4-3-2-1 with a solid midfield three allowing the two wide men the freedom to attack and not worry about the work, I like that idea, and, we also have Jack able to play in the ten role if we need it and add Trezeguet out wide - Jack is better than Ross in the ten (no shame in that for Barkley) and the addition of Trez helps to put a little bit more workrate back into things - essentially, I think we can play well without him.

He's a luxury, he's talented, he's got an eye for goal and he's clearly rated by his teammates, if we buy him, I won't be particularly unhappy about it, but to play him we need to play a certain way and I think we'll have to be ready to sacrifice him at times in order to give us a little tactical flexibility - Grealish, McGinn, Sanson and Luiz are all capable of playing in more than one tactical role - Barkley is a peg of one shape - sometimes that shape won't be what we need, and sometimes it will.

Hopefully today is a day for a Barkley shaped peg and he can stick two fingers up at me and the rest of his critics.

 

Brilliant post and I agree with every word. And with hindsight .... He couldnt manage to do it

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Thought he played well to be honest, nothing amazing but made things happen more than most until he faded a bit over the course of the game. Partey is a brilliant player and they had a good battle that if anything Barkley came out on top in more often than not.

Don't understand the stick he's getting over his reaction to being taken off outside of the fact he just seems to be the new whipping boy now. Jack was getting lauded for the exact same thing apparently showing just how much desire he has against Newcastle.

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He evidently has a level of skill beyond the norm, but in matches like today he slows the game down too much IMO whether it be in possession or without it. No idea why he threw a tantrum I can only hope it was out of frustration at himself.

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3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Send him back. Poor performances, childish behaviour. Poor.

I'm not sure we would have won against Southampton without him.  I don't think another midfielder would have made that run so let's not go overboard as he will score important goals between now and the end of the season.  Obviously he needs to get fitter though.

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Rich mans Conor Hourihane on current form. Does some nice stuff with the ball but not putting in enough effort most of the time.

No one likes to be substituted I guess. Fully deserved thou.

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I'm not overly impressed by Ross, as I said in the match thread. Gets injured a lot and doesn't do enough to justify leaving a big hole in the team.

Dean Smith knows more about what the team needs than I do, but unless he turns things around massively in the rest of the season then I'd be a bit disappointed if we bought him. He'd be an expensive player and I'm not sure he warrants that spend.

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Thought he was much better today, I think subbing him was the right move though, he is great when you have space and are controlling the match but offers little if you are chasing a game. I thought Traore was unfortunate to get subbed but again it was the right decision.

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Just now, Sulberto21 said:

I think he played better today on the ball. But he limits us so much off the ball. Even if he just tucked in and blocked passing lanes.

 

And this is exactly it.

I can't repeat enough how disastrous it is.

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He was better today and then when Arsenal turned it on he went missing. He's a great player to have on the edge of the box when he's linking up with Jack and Targett and we are playing our best, most fluid football.. but when we aren't at our absolute best he's a luxury and a lazy one at that when we're under pressure.

Again. I'd like us to sign him he adds something to us that we don't have without him. The early season form before his injury was unreal and we were at our best. But quickly becoming apparent that he isn't a 90 mins player in any match in the Premier League and he probably costs 2x in fees and wages than he is worth for those games we're doing well.

If we could get him for say £20m and £80k a week he'd be a no brainer.  But he'll be 50-100% more expensive than that and not sure we should pull that trigger. Has a lot to prove the next 6 months to decide whether he wants to end up an important player at somebody like Us, Soton or Everton... Or whether he wants to be at somewhere like Newcastle, Fulham or Palace... Or continue warming a bench, which he clearly doesn't want or he wouldn't be with us now.

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Thought he was solid, created a sitter for Barkley and linked the play well going forwards at the start of the second half. Gets close to Watkins and pushes him into the box instead of dropping deep. I think we need to remember how many minutes hes played after a hamstring injury. A lot in a short time. 

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6 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

I think he played better today on the ball. But he limits us so much off the ball. Even if he just tucked in and blocked passing lanes.

 

Bang on, we just don't seem to have the right balance with Ross and a whoever is on the right, needs to be one or the other and another dedicated midfielder.

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I forgot he was on the pitch until about 20 minutes into the game and did the least on the pitch today, barely tried a leg in some occasuons, barely tracked back and then gets substituted because of another poor game. Funny he then throws a fit as if he was on a Hatrick!??

Dean Smith didn't take too well to the bottle kicking behaviour either going by his reaction.

 

 

Edited by AvfcRigo82
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2 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

One touch and pass it on fella. For his ability he doesnt half complicate things.

totally agree with this, it like he is trying to be Grealish. just get in the box , make runs and score some goals. He doesn't have to slow the tempo. Also he needs to show more passion. 

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