OutByEaster? Posted December 30, 2020 Moderator Share Posted December 30, 2020 9 hours ago, maqroll said: Scrap both cups immediately to save leagues Now this sounds really sensible, but it's so complicated to actually do. I'm going to ignore the EFL cup, there's only three matches to go so scrapping it wouldn't make a lot of difference ad concentrate on the FA Cup. Scrapping the FA Cup is difficult for one particular reason - it's owned by the FA and it's how they make their money. Scrapping the FA Cup means that someone has to repay the TV companies, and someone has to compensate Wembley and someone has to compensate Emirates for the sponsorship and someone has to compensate Budweiser and MasterCard and all the others that have a snout in the trough - I'd reckon we're looking at probably £40m to cover it. You'd need UEFA to agree to redistribute the Europa league place to the league - which again wouldn't be easy - the FA won't want to give anything to the Premier League for nothing, (they aren't two groups that get on all that well) and then UEFA will of course need a sack of cash and a holiday in the Azures for their trouble. There'd need to be legal written guarantees that the Premier league would promise to give the FA the Europa league place back and there'd need to be some sort of compensation to some lower league trier who might have had their eyes on European qualification and would be very keen to go to court with the idea that they're now denied the chance to compete for it - we can probably add a few more million on to the compensation in order to keep everyone happy. Then there's a delicate negotiation as to who is paying all this money - everyone competes in the FA Cup and I think it's fair that the Dog & Brisket village XI who played in the fourth qualifying round would not be expected to contribute as much as say, Liverpool, but would Notts County be expected to cough up a chunk, would Solihull Borough, would Brentford, and if so, how much? In common with most lower league clubs they've not got a pot to piss in - they'd be hoping the Premier League clubs would pay just about everything. So what you'd be left with is the Premier League voting to give up the FA Cup, the TV money from it and the gate revenue from it and for each of those clubs to cough up about £2m for the privilege - if you'd like to approach Mr Purslow with your hand out and say "We're cancelling the FA Cup, can I have two million pounds please?" I'll wish you luck. Getting twenty Premier League clubs to agree on anything is hard enough, throw in the FA and the fractious relationship between the two, add in tens of millions of pounds of lost revenue and mix in UEFA, corporate sponsors and more lawyers than you can shake a stick at and it's almost impossible. The way the game is set up, with so many different governing bodies having separate revenue streams makes it really difficult to cancel a tournament - FIFA need the money from the World Cup, UEFA need the money from the Euros, the Champions League and Europa League, The FA need the money from the FA Cup and the Premier League not only want all the money from their own tournament, but would quite happily snatch up everyone else's money given half a chance. This is going to get very messy. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swerbs Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 24 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: So, is it now only Southampton and Brighton that can have fans in the ground? No one can have any fans unless there's a team from the Isle of Scilly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) Scrap international and European football? Edited December 30, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted December 30, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Scrap international and European football? Because the UK has a massive covid problem? Bit harsh on all the other countries not as badly hit isn't it? Or do you mean no UK teams participate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 The season will be condensed that’s all that can be done. more games in fewer days. There’s no other option really. For most clubs the FA cup will be two extra games at the most. A few clubs will get to quarters and beyond but that really is it. the five subs doesn’t really offer much tbh players would still need to train and prepare for games, it’s about giving players rest altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Now this sounds really sensible, but it's so complicated to actually do. I'm going to ignore the EFL cup, there's only three matches to go so scrapping it wouldn't make a lot of difference ad concentrate on the FA Cup. Scrapping the FA Cup is difficult for one particular reason - it's owned by the FA and it's how they make their money. Scrapping the FA Cup means that someone has to repay the TV companies, and someone has to compensate Wembley and someone has to compensate Emirates for the sponsorship and someone has to compensate Budweiser and MasterCard and all the others that have a snout in the trough - I'd reckon we're looking at probably £40m to cover it. You'd need UEFA to agree to redistribute the Europa league place to the league - which again wouldn't be easy - the FA won't want to give anything to the Premier League for nothing, (they aren't two groups that get on all that well) and then UEFA will of course need a sack of cash and a holiday in the Azures for their trouble. There'd need to be legal written guarantees that the Premier league would promise to give the FA the Europa league place back and there'd need to be some sort of compensation to some lower league trier who might have had their eyes on European qualification and would be very keen to go to court with the idea that they're now denied the chance to compete for it - we can probably add a few more million on to the compensation in order to keep everyone happy. Then there's a delicate negotiation as to who is paying all this money - everyone competes in the FA Cup and I think it's fair that the Dog & Brisket village XI who played in the fourth qualifying round would not be expected to contribute as much as say, Liverpool, but would Notts County be expected to cough up a chunk, would Solihull Borough, would Brentford, and if so, how much? In common with most lower league clubs they've not got a pot to piss in - they'd be hoping the Premier League clubs would pay just about everything. So what you'd be left with is the Premier League voting to give up the FA Cup, the TV money from it and the gate revenue from it and for each of those clubs to cough up about £2m for the privilege - if you'd like to approach Mr Purslow with your hand out and say "We're cancelling the FA Cup, can I have two million pounds please?" I'll wish you luck. Getting twenty Premier League clubs to agree on anything is hard enough, throw in the FA and the fractious relationship between the two, add in tens of millions of pounds of lost revenue and mix in UEFA, corporate sponsors and more lawyers than you can shake a stick at and it's almost impossible. The way the game is set up, with so many different governing bodies having separate revenue streams makes it really difficult to cancel a tournament - FIFA need the money from the World Cup, UEFA need the money from the Euros, the Champions League and Europa League, The FA need the money from the FA Cup and the Premier League not only want all the money from their own tournament, but would quite happily snatch up everyone else's money given half a chance. This is going to get very messy. all great points, but its looking very possible that it will get scrapped anyway through mass infections, so might as well get ahead of it and start shutting it down now. It was really stupid and greedy and dangerous to hold the cup tournaments this year in the first place. The Nations League tournament in particular which nobody cares about. They should have concentrated on the leagues only. Oh well. I really worry that Villa's amazing season so far might be over soon. Edited December 30, 2020 by maqroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted December 30, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, kidlewis said: The season will be condensed that’s all that can be done. more games in fewer days. There’s no other option really. For most clubs the FA cup will be two extra games at the most. A few clubs will get to quarters and beyond but that really is it. the five subs doesn’t really offer much tbh players would still need to train and prepare for games, it’s about giving players rest altogether. Seeing how it played out last time then the TV are going to want the same number of games played regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted December 30, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, maqroll said: all great points, but its looking very possible that it will get scrapped anyway through mass infections, so might as well get ahead of it and start shutting it down now. Money will decide it like last time. Might be sensible for the Premier League, FA, UEFA and FIFA to all get together and buy a fuckload of vaccines if they want to keep playing. They have enough resources to set up a lab and start knocking them out themselves! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 35 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Scrap international and European football? The leagues with their promotion/relegation structure need to run. All other competitions aren't dependent on pro/rel and should've been called off months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Might be a bit harsh on Champions League newcomers etc., but they should have anticipated that teams flying in and out of countries in the middle of a raging pandemic would be really problematic. Will they even let English teams travel to Europe now with this new strain of the virus? Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: Now this sounds really sensible, but it's so complicated to actually do. I'm going to ignore the EFL cup, there's only three matches to go so scrapping it wouldn't make a lot of difference ad concentrate on the FA Cup. Scrapping the FA Cup is difficult for one particular reason - it's owned by the FA and it's how they make their money. Scrapping the FA Cup means that someone has to repay the TV companies, and someone has to compensate Wembley and someone has to compensate Emirates for the sponsorship and someone has to compensate Budweiser and MasterCard and all the others that have a snout in the trough - I'd reckon we're looking at probably £40m to cover it. If that's all it's easy enough. What's that, £ 2 million a club? Piss in the ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, romavillan said: Because the UK has a massive covid problem? Bit harsh on all the other countries not as badly hit isn't it? Or do you mean no UK teams participate? Isn't most of Europe badly hit? I was thinking from a UK teams perspective tbh because I’m not aware of other countries. I just assuming there were problems everywhere. If we are postponing domestic games theres no way our teams should be travelling accross Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Lets be honest. We’re one injury away from being in trouble. Unless that injury is to Jack, not sure I can agree, just yet. To be fair I was of the same stance you were before our recent run, where we still have yet to actually field our strongest team. The reserves have pleasantly surprised me so far and stepped up. Edited December 30, 2020 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted December 30, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2020 26 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Isn't most of Europe badly hit? I was thinking from a UK teams perspective tbh because I’m not aware of other countries. I just assuming there were problems everywhere. If we are postponing domestic games theres no way our teams should be travelling accross Europe. UK has accelerated massively, 4 times the infections daily of even here in Italy which is one of the worst hit countries. Yep it wouldn't be smart to jetting about the place with the new variant now pretty much everywhere in England. Might just be that the UK is ahead of the rest now as the new variant started up there and the rest will follow, in which case then there will be no CL or Europa league football getting played I reckon. I have a sneaking suspicion though that the total ineptitude of the UK government has played a very big part in all this.https://covid.graphics/countries_delta.html Almost all of Europe is decelerating apart from the UK which is going the other way. Hopefully the governing bodies will have talked with the TV people and lawyers the last time about what to do if the need rises to stop playing again. Might be wishful thinking though that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 32 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Unless that injury is to Jack, not sure I can agree, just yet. To be fair I was of the same stance you were before our recent run, where we still have yet to actually field our strongest team. The reserves have pleasantly surprised me so far and stepped up. I think a long term injury to Jack, Watkins, Luiz, Targett and we are in trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted December 30, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: I think a long term injury to Jack, Watkins, Luiz, Targett and we are in trouble. Depends what you mean by trouble, I think we are going to hit a bad run at some point this season just because we have over achieved so much but also because of players getting knackered. Which will be exacerbated by playing more games with fewer days rest if there's a stop in the proceedings for covid. We should expect it though and even if our form falls off for a month I'd expect us to more than achieve what we set out to do this season, which was do better than last season and stay up comfortably. Anything else is a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 22 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: I think a long term injury to Jack, Watkins, Luiz, Targett and we are in trouble Jack or Ollie yes, but it depends what you mean by trouble? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Trouble simply means a losing run to ruin a lot of people's expectations at this point. I'm very impressed by us this season, but the idea we're not an injury away from trouble is pretty far fetched to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Judging by some of the comments on here recently some people's expectations will be ruined sooner or later whether we lose players or not, very difficult to keep up our current form over the season, most likely we will have periods where we struggle. Next three games against, Man Utd, Liverpool and Spurs will be incredibly tough and if we're not careful could give us a reality check. If we can win the FA cup and finish in the top half then we will have had a tremendous season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Edit: I forgot we have Liverpool in the cup, still if you're going to win it have to beat the best teams at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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