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Xann

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Stand on scooters have really taken off here since folk have been swerving the Tube. It's on the new bike lanes they really come into their own. Some of them are nippy, faster than many cyclists. We'll see how they deal with Autumn and Winter? Can also see casualties mounting up on pavements, kids of all ages being kids, then laws being changed.

The bikes are getting pretty good as well. Saw the fattest guy I've ever seen on a bicycle last week pootling along under power, and recently I caught up with a tradesman riding side saddle with his tools on the back. He was pretty quick.

A friend just bought an electric Gazelle bike and trailer for a shade over 2K, which I thought was expensive. Then you remember people pay big money for big cars then sit in traffic jams here. He got a week's shop in the trailer. Driving to local decent supermarkets in the day at the weekend is like pulling teeth. Riding is a sedate meander through a nature reserve, or your own lane on the pacier cycle network then quiet backroads.

If road traffic slows any more and the warmer Winter trend continues, there's perhaps the chance of a change of attitude here?

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7 minutes ago, Xann said:

Stand on scooters have really taken off here since folk have been swerving the Tube. It's on the new bike lanes they really come into their own. Some of them are nippy, faster than many cyclists. We'll see how they deal with Autumn and Winter? Can also see casualties mounting up on pavements, kids of all ages being kids, then laws being changed.

The bikes are getting pretty good as well. Saw the fattest guy I've ever seen on a bicycle last week pootling along under power, and recently I caught up with a tradesman riding side saddle with his tools on the back. He was pretty quick.

A friend just bought an electric Gazelle bike and trailer for a shade over 2K, which I thought was expensive. Then you remember people pay big money for big cars then sit in traffic jams here. He got a week's shop in the trailer. Driving to local decent supermarkets in the day at the weekend is like pulling teeth. Riding is a sedate meander through a nature reserve, or your own lane on the pacier cycle network then quiet backroads.

If road traffic slows any more and the warmer Winter trend continues, there's perhaps the chance of a change of attitude here?

Currently illegal still aren't they?

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3 minutes ago, bickster said:

Currently illegal still aren't they?

I think they’ve been cleared as legal really recently, or at the very least, the govt have said they’re putting up legislation to make them legal...

 

weirdly, by the look of it you can legally hire one, but not own one...

 

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8 hours ago, Xann said:

Rented ones come with insurance and are good to go.

As Chris suggests, they're the only ones legally allowed on roads, cycle paths and cycle lanes.

They're covered under the trial scheme that began in July - details (at least proposed ones) here:

Quote

E-scooters could be a fast and clean way to travel that eases the burden on the transport network and allows for social distancing. Before we can decide whether to fully legalise them and determine the rules that should apply, we need to understand their impacts. That means gathering evidence on their safety, how people use them, whether the potential benefits can be realised, and how to manage the downsides. Therefore, we will run controlled trials, with local areas, starting trials much sooner and in many more places. We are consulting on proposed regulations that would allow trials to begin and set the rules e-scooter users must follow.

It is important to note that the changes proposed will apply only to e-scooters legally used as part of trials, for the duration of the trials. E-scooters not used as part of the trials will remain illegal on the road, in cycle lanes and tracks, and on pavements.

...

We think it is appropriate not to require formal training or testing to use an e-scooter limited to 12.5 or 15.5 mph, as is the case with EAPCs. This will allow the maximum possible number of people to participate in trials. Those without a driving licence will be able to apply for a provisional licence to use a trial e-scooter. This will allow e-scooter use from the age of 16. We also recognise international equivalent driving licences. We will still apply a 16 year old age limit, even where an under 16 year old holds an international driving licence.

Electric (pedal-assisted) bikes are a different kettle of fish - they're treated as bikes.

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I have got a Segway Ninebot.  Ace little thing,  I live in a seaside village and they don't really bother with the law that much for stuff like this,  Especially if you live there,  I have rode it past the police loads of times.

There is no safety issue as far as I can work out unless you are a knob.  They are easier to see than bikes in reality as you stand up.  A half hour walk to the shops and back can be done in 5-10 mins now.

They (Governments) only want to find a way to make money out of them that is what they are struggling with I think.

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16 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

They (Governments) only want to find a way to make money out of them that is what they are struggling with I think.

It's not just about that at all. There are quite clearly safety considerations and not just for the riders of these things but for others, too - especially pedestrians.

People do seem to think that as long as it's a scooter or a bike of some sort that it's fine to ride it around at speeds which may break the law and/or put themselves and other people in danger (whether motorised or not).

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18 minutes ago, snowychap said:

It's not just about that at all. There are quite clearly safety considerations and not just for the riders of these things but for others, too - especially pedestrians.

People do seem to think that as long as it's a scooter or a bike of some sort that it's fine to ride it around at speeds which may break the law and/or put themselves and other people in danger (whether motorised or not).

It's different here remember,  the hierarchy (As in right of way) is pedestrian,  bikes & electric stuff / electric cars (These are allowed in the bike lanes go up to 25 kmh) / buses / cars.

They have the little electric cars in the bike lanes so the thought that my little scooter is more dangerous than that is madness.

The safety problem,  chances of being hit by a car vs anything else & chances of survival for under 30 mph would be a good thing to know and the deaths caused directly by scooters.  Also,  if people are on a scooter they cant kill anyone with a car for example (They would struggle to kill anyone with a scooter unless you picked it up and threw it at someone).

 

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I went to LA last year and the rented scooters were all over the place. Several companies operated them (Uber being the most obvious but there was a company called Lime or something as well that seemed pretty big)

Gotta say I thought they were absolutely brilliant.

I guess they work a bit like the "Boris" bikes in London. Scan the scooter wherever you find it, that unlocks it and makes it work. Drive it wherever you want and then just leave it where you finish. There's certain places you can't leave it, but pretty much anywhere is allowed. The app gives you a map of where they all are so you can find your nearest one.

And they're cheap. We worked out that if you used one for a full hour it would cost you less than 10 dollars (I think it was actually 8 dollars something)

 

What I would say, however, is the roads there were perfectly set up for them. Huge wide roads with dedicated bike lanes. Not much traffic (Santa Monica that is, obviously traffic elsewhere in LA is horrendous). I'd suggest if they were let loose on the roads we have over here the potential for accidents is much higher

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55 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

It's different here remember,  the hierarchy (As in right of way) is pedestrian,  bikes & electric stuff / electric cars (These are allowed in the bike lanes go up to 25 kmh) / buses / cars.

Well, some of it may be a little different - electric cars allowed in to bike lanes and the infrastructure for bikes and so on - but the hierarchy isn't (though one wouldn't know that a lot of the time).

55 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

They have the little electric cars in the bike lanes so the thought that my little scooter is more dangerous than that is madness.

The safety problem,  chances of being hit by a car vs anything else & chances of survival for under 30 mph would be a good thing to know and the deaths caused directly by scooters.  Also,  if people are on a scooter they cant kill anyone with a car for example (They would struggle to kill anyone with a scooter unless you picked it up and threw it at someone).

There are a number of things here but most importantly why does everything have to revolve around 'chances of survival' (as it seems to do in the virus thread and lots of other places)? It really shouldn't be merely about death versus everything else. Getting seriously injured isn't particularly pretty and can be pretty bloody damaging especially to someone (and perhaps a family) that may lose their livelihood because of it.

The point is that it's right to look at all of the implications of new technologies in lots of different situations to assess what these are across the board not merely make assumptions that 'x is madness' because it may apply in one single, simple situation.

Another point is to consider not just the sensible people who may use these things with due regard for other users of roads, pavements, cycle paths, bridleways, pathways on common land, &c. but also the clearings in the woods who just don't consider anyone else (or even themselves). Also, an increase in speed ought to come with it an increased requirement for maintenance (especially of brakes) and increased requirements (and implementation of such) for visibility when it's dark.

I think these things are a good thing and more people should be looking to use them but there needs to be infrastructure investment (at least in the UK) to add to the space where they can be used (we can't just plonk them in existing environments along with everything else there - they won't just be substitutes for existing 'vehicles' - and think it's okay); there needs to be education as to their use (practicality and legality) and on other people's awareness of them in their environment; there needs to be real requirement for proper maintenance.

Edited by snowychap
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31 minutes ago, snowychap said:

there needs to be real requirement for proper maintenance.

This is the great thing about the scooters. 

Solid wheels and it has 3 breaking systems. (Manual hand,  manual foot or Kers or a mix of the 3) + the lights.  It is really difficult to not stop if you see what I mean.  Much safer than bikes + no hills here at all.

No acceleration means,  it just sort of stops with the Kers almost instantly anyway.

Everyone should try one 1st.

 

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1 minute ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

This is the great thing about the scooters.

As long as they're properly maintained, surely?

7 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

no hills here at all

Indeed - which is one reason why using The Netherlands as an example might not be the most appropriate. :)

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11 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

it has 3 breaking systems. (Manual hand,  manual foot or Kers or a mix of the 3)

Three different braking systems or three different ways of employing the same braking mechanism?

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4 minutes ago, snowychap said:
13 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

no hills here at all

Indeed - which is one reason why using The Netherlands as an example might not be the most appropriate. :)

That's why crime is so low over there, you can see them coming a mile away.

©Bill Bailey.

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1 minute ago, snowychap said:

Three different braking systems or three different ways of employing the same braking mechanism?

1. Is the the left hand break like a bike (By wire)

2. Is the breaking when you turn the Kers on to recharge from breaking as in cars.

3. Is on the back wheel (So you actually press on the break with the wheel cover and this has ridges underneath to stop the back wheel.)

4. Jump off the *****er

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