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1 minute ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

I think he definitely should play, even if it's just off the bench for the first game. He was good in the cup game and we want to keep that momentum up IMO.

Think Traore will start and make us a better team, Trez loses the ball too easily and is ineffective in general play. Decent option off the bench to try and grab us a goal though.

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1 minute ago, Mjvilla said:

How is saying 'we're playing Fulham mate' after the error you made, in any way, shape or form taking the piss out of Fulham's quality?

'when we lose' is not said as an opinion, you've treated it as fact. I don't think calling you out on this is, again, in any way, shape or form... Wrong. Don't patronise me, I know the idea of a messageboard, but when someone speaks in a factual way, their opinion, it's should be called out. 

Because when I underline the right back strength of Dallas and his routine, as an argument as to why we shouldn't start Traore, his reply would infer that Fulham is so bad we don't have to be worried about their right back doing a trick on our new player. i.e. we would win anyway.

It's not. Posts are written as opinions on here. That's generally how it works. Whatever you see written is an opinion unless they actively back it up with documentation. If you can't see that, well your problem. 

Sorry you feel it's patronising, but the idea that posts on a messageboard are opinions unless stated otherwise is something a 10 year old understands. If not every single statement would have to be followed by IMO. 

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2 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Because when I underline the right back strength of Dallas and his routine, as an argument as to why we shouldn't start Traore, his reply would infer that Fulham is so bad we don't have to be worried about their right back doing a trick on our new player. i.e. we would win anyway.

It's not. Posts are written as opinions on here. That's generally how it works. Whatever you see written is an opinion unless they actively back it up with documentation. If you can't see that, well your problem. 

Sorry you feel it's patronising, but the idea that posts on a messageboard are opinions unless stated otherwise is something a 10 year old understands. If not every single statement would have to be followed by IMO. 

So, an apology followed by more patronisation. Ok, I typed out a long post in reply to all this but can't be arsed if this is the way it's headed. Thanks @KenjiOgiwara, this has done me a big favour.

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51 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

Grealish, Watkins, traore the front 3 Monday then. Certainly better than Grealish, samatta, trez which is more than likely our strongest from the end of last year. Good recruitment to date.

With Davis and Trez to run them ragged in the last 10/15  mins if required 

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On 25/09/2020 at 23:40, Tomaszk said:

Still though...Lyon didn't want him. They surely couldn't believe their luck when someone came with an offer of over £15m.

I'm no expert on European football but I'm sure I read that he was doing pretty well at Lyon - at least stats wise anyway - until a change in the manager who wanted to play a formation that Traore didn't fit into?

As others have said as well, Lyon didn't want Carew when we acquired his talents and that worked out ok for us.  Let's hope Traore can replicate the success of that move.

I only saw the extended highlights of the game but I was very pleasantly surprised by what I saw from Traore, even without the goal.

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23 hours ago, Jas10 said:

Think Traore will start and make us a better team, Trez loses the ball too easily and is ineffective in general play. Decent option off the bench to try and grab us a goal though.

Trez got disposessed at a rate of 0.6 per game last season. Traore got disposessed at a rate of 1.1 with Lyon last season so if you're looking for him to keep the ball more often than Trez, you'd be disappointed.

That said, I agree he'll probably be more effective than Trez.

 

On another note, one thing I haven't really seen mentioned about him so far is his defensive work. It is statswise better than all our current wingers. 

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30 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Trez got disposessed at a rate of 0.6 per game last season. Traore got disposessed at a rate of 1.1 with Lyon last season so if you're looking for him to keep the ball more often than Trez, you'd be disappointed.

That said, I agree he'll probably be more effective than Trez.

 

On another note, one thing I haven't really seen mentioned about him so far is his defensive work. It is statswise better than all our current wingers. 

Would be interested to know what that Traore stat was before last season.

I've a theory that he is the type that needs extra management and love, he is very good technically but from his interviews he is obviously a very laid back chilled type and that may filter in to his play when he unhappy.

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38 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

Would be interested to know what that Traore stat was before last season.

I've a theory that he is the type that needs extra management and love, he is very good technically but from his interviews he is obviously a very laid back chilled type and that may filter in to his play when he unhappy.

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/109807/History/Bertrand-Traoré

You can check it yourself here.

Basically, his average number of times disposessed stats in the league were

2017-18:1.3 times per game

2018-19:1.1 times per game

2019-20:1.2 times per game

So its been fairly consistent across the seasons he's had with Lyon.

That said, disposession stats can be pretty misleading by themselves. For example, Grealish was our most disposessed winger last season just by virtue of the amount of times he tried to force the issue and start an attack. So he ended up losing the ball more, but he also managed to create more attacking opportunities.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/109807/History/Bertrand-Traoré

You can check it yourself here.

Basically, his average number of times disposessed stats in the league were

2017-18:1.3 times per game

2018-19:1.1 times per game

2019-20:1.2 times per game

So its been fairly consistent across the seasons he's had with Lyon.

That said, disposession stats can be pretty misleading by themselves. For example, Grealish was our most disposessed winger last season just by virtue of the amount of times he tried to force the issue and start an attack. So he ended up losing the ball more, but he also managed to create more attacking opportunities.

 

 

Also interesting to see how dispossessed is defined there. If it’s in control and then gave it away I can maybe believe the Trez stat because generally he isn’t really looking to beat a man and usually finds a pass. If it’s failing to get the ball under control in the first place there is no way I believe 0.6. Trez, like AEG struggles with the physicality of the PL and his technique isn’t good enough to bail him out. I think everyone is hoping Traore will be a big step up on both of those fronts. 

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17 minutes ago, villaglint said:

Also interesting to see how dispossessed is defined there. If it’s in control and then gave it away I can maybe believe the Trez stat because generally he isn’t really looking to beat a man and usually finds a pass. If it’s failing to get the ball under control in the first place there is no way I believe 0.6. Trez, like AEG struggles with the physicality of the PL and his technique isn’t good enough to bail him out. I think everyone is hoping Traore will be a big step up on both of those fronts. 

I believe the stat you're looking for there, is unsuccesful touches per game. Trez had 2.1 of those per game last season.

Edited by Laughable Chimp
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Traore is smarter on the ball than any of the wingers we have excluding Grealish.

I think he should start against Fulham even if it's to give him some game time, at worst we just sub him off if hes looking shattered and bring Trez on, simple done.

 

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I'm hoping after his very encouraging display against Bristol that Traore can finally take some of the pressure off of Jack and give opposition players someone else to think about.
I know it was against Bristol City, in the "least valuable" cup competition, but he certainly added a lot of flair and gave the opposition something to think about... Correct me if I am wrong, but a lot of our attacking movement in that game came through him... and his goal (whether it was intentional or not) was lush...

Can't wait to see what else he can bring to the squad when playing with the first team!

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i agree that Traore will probably be more erratic than Trez, but thats completely fine if he is more productive.

We need someone else who gives opposition teams something to think about, hopefully Traore can provide that.

I also think Watkins will give teams something to think about as he's a very well rounded player, we will see.

 

i really think another quality midfielder or wide player will do the business, then its down to Smith doing his job with hopefully a much improved squad.

 

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2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Limited time on the pitch but man he looked skillful. Touch, technique, weight of pass, everything was on another level to our other wingers.

Agree. Would've loved to see him have more minutes. His cross to find Watkins was sublime.

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Think we’re just waiting for his fitness to improve: match against Bristol was his first since July (?) but expect to see him getting more minutes in the coming weeks. He will start against Stoke and be benched for Liverpool (fitness and Trez’s defensive work rate). Then they can review his progress. He looks tidy.  

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