Emiliano Martínez

[Davkaus]

2 minutes ago, Woody1000 said:

If a compromise has been agreed between the players and club then I don’t see what the Argentinian FA can do about it

Well, they can punish the players, and they're not going to want to take the risk of being sidelined potentially missing out on being in the World Cup squad.

Every game these guys don't play in is an oppurtunity for one of their competitors to stake a claim to their spot.

[string28]

I had a feeling this would happen and the truth i dont think we can do much about it.

[Woody1000]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Well, they can punish the players, and they're not going to want to take the risk of being sidelined potentially missing out on being in the World Cup squad.

Every game these guys don't play in is an oppurtunity for one of their competitors to stake a claim to their spot.

I know what you’re saying, but then we could punish the players for reneging on the agreement and bomb them out of the team which would probably result in them losing their place anyway.

This could get really messy, I hope that isn’t the case and the Emi’s see that the club have been accommodating and fair.

[Villatillidie95]

Do we actually know, for certain, that there is a deal between the 2 players and the club? The official Villa twitter post mentioned that the players will link up with the national team, with their blessing. It didn't mention anything about a gentlemans agreement. For all we know, that could be some chancer on social media starting and then peddling a myth and that then being taken as gospel by the fanbase when spread via social media. We shouldn't start spouting off about Emi x2 until we know for certain there was indeed an agreement between Villa and the players to only play 2/3 games.

[villan-scott]

Just now, Villatillidie95 said:

Do we actually know, for certain, that there is a deal between the 2 players and the club? The official Villa twitter post mentioned that the players will link up with the national team, with their blessing. It didn't mention anything about a gentlemans agreement. For all we know, that could be some chancer on social media starting and then peddling a myth and that then being taken as gospel by the fanbase when spread via social media. We shouldn't start spouting off about Emi x2 until we know for certain there was indeed an agreement between Villa and the players to only play 2/3 games.

The official statement said they agreed to play the first 2 games then travel back. 

[Villatillidie95]

Just now, villan-scott said:

The official statement said they agreed to play the first 2 games then travel back. 

oh yeah my bad, my statement is totally null and void .... we cannot allow that to be the case, otherwise we will be walked over in future by them 2 and other players. I hope they do honour the agreement they struck

[Villa87]

I think some people are being remarkably tolerant about this. If they play all 3 games and more to follow in later international breaks then it’s a **** farce. Forgetting the money spent on signing them and the platform provided for them to get picked for the national team, consider how much they are being paid every week. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

Back to ‘let’s just see what happens’. 

[Davkaus]

1 minute ago, Villa87 said:

I think some people are being remarkably tolerant about this. If they play all 3 games and more to follow in later international breaks then it’s a **** farce. Forgetting the money spent on signing them and the platform provided for them to get picked for the national team, consider how much they are being paid every week. 

Looking at a wider scope than just the Emis and Villa, it's an absolute farce that FIFA, acting as a regulatory body, is essentially enforcing rules to benefit itself financially by prioritising their competition, there's a huge power imbalance here. I've not been able to verify the dates myself but I#ve seen people saying they could miss 10 games for us because of this, and that's not including the fact that they're going to need to regain match fitness after going 10 days without proper training. 

We could be talking about clubs paying their players to miss a third of a season, to play in a different competitions because that competition's organiser says so. The PL clubs are right to take a stand and I don't think we should have been willing to break the line and compromise.

[blandy]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

The club and manager have done nothing wrong. I think they've handled it the best they possibly could. I think the players have put them in a difficult position.

Not for me. Yes, the Club and manager have been fine, but there's zero blame for Emi Martinez or Emi Buendia. It's not the players who arranged the fixtures, or came up with the UK red list or rules around quarantine. International players have a duty to their clubs, but also to their national team. When fixtures are scheduled by FIFA that cause those 2 duties to clash, you can't blame the players (whichever side they end up playing for). There's a world cup in a few (international) games time. No player would want to miss out on selection for that by refusing to turn up. It's also the case that FIFA won a CAS ruling that the international teams had a right to demand players turn up and clubs had to release them.

 

The Villains of the piece here are FIFA and the UK gov'ts weird covid red/amber/green list policy on which nations are red etc.

[Davkaus]

8 minutes ago, blandy said:

The Villains of the piece here are FIFA and the UK gov'ts weird covid red/amber/green list policy on which nations are red etc.

The frustrating thing is we're at 33k cases per day, the government seems to think that's absolutely fine, but won't make a further exception for a tiny number of elite sportsmen who'll be on private flights, and are regularly tested, when there are already built in exceptions. They'd just need to add the world cup to the list of eligible tournaments, which currently consists of:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/582/schedule/11

Quote

(a)the 2020 UEFA European Football Championship;

(b)All England Lawn Tennis Club – The Championships, Wimbledon;

(c)England & Wales Cricket Board International Cricket fixtures;

(d)ICC World Test Championship Final;

(e)Lawn Tennis Association – Birmingham Classic;

(f)Lawn Tennis Association – Cinch Championships;

(g)Lawn Tennis Association – Eastbourne International;

(h)Lawn Tennis Association – Nottingham Open;

(i)Lawn Tennis Association – Nottingham Trophy.

A couple of second tier tennis tournaments in Nottingham are eligible for being excepted from red list travel rules, but not the World Cup qualifiers?!

MPs return from the summer recess next Monday, so maybe we'll see some action before it's too late.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Davkaus

[blandy]

2 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

What's to stop the club or the league opening their own quarantine hotel

Just the law, basically - it has to be a managed quarantine hotel approved by HM Gov't.

There are a number of professions that are exempt from the quarantine rules (mine included) -

Interestingly, Sports people are on the exempt list to an extent, looking at the Gov't website, if the Premier League was added to the list of events 

Quote

Elite sportspersons ... After arrival in England from Red list countries

Applies if you have been in a red list country in the 10 days before you arrive in England.

You must quarantine in a government approved hotel and take a COVID-19 test on day 2 and day 8 unless you are participating in a significant sporting event which is listed in Schedule 11 of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (England) Regulations 2021.

Applies to:

... elite sportspersons and essential operational or support staff returning from an elite sports event ...

 

[blandy]

7 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

They'd just need to add the world cup to the list

Ha. Just posted similar comment though I think it would need to be the Premier League (as the UK event they're participating in).

[Davkaus]

7 minutes ago, blandy said:

Ha. Just posted similar comment though I think it would need to be the Premier League (as the UK event they're participating in).

Very much a much of a muchness in terms of the complexity of the required change, but I think the key bit is in the final line of your quote; "returning from". The way I read that, it doesn't matter what they're doing when they return to the UK, they don't even need to be competing in anything, it's just that they are exempted from the quarantine measures if their reason for being in the red list country was due to competing in one of those competitions.

Either way, hopefully with FIFA, the PL, and several clubs kicking up a fuss about this we'll see a change if not before the end of this international break, then in time for the one in October.

Edit: While "returning from" reads that way, it can't mean that. Nobody is flying off to a red list country to play in a tennis competition in Nottingham, I must be mistaken  

Edited August 30, 2021 by Davkaus

[blandy]

4 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Nobody is flying off to a red list country to play in a tennis competition in Nottingham, I must be mistaken

Yeah, that was my reason for saying PL, not WC.

[DCJonah]

25 minutes ago, blandy said:

Not for me. Yes, the Club and manager have been fine, but there's zero blame for Emi Martinez or Emi Buendia. It's not the players who arranged the fixtures, or came up with the UK red list or rules around quarantine. International players have a duty to their clubs, but also to their national team. When fixtures are scheduled by FIFA that cause those 2 duties to clash, you can't blame the players (whichever side they end up playing for). There's a world cup in a few (international) games time. No player would want to miss out on selection for that by refusing to turn up. It's also the case that FIFA won a CAS ruling that the international teams had a right to demand players turn up and clubs had to release them.

 

The Villains of the piece here are FIFA and the UK gov'ts weird covid red/amber/green list policy on which nations are red etc.

I agree with the vast majority of that. But that's out of everyone's hands. The rules are the rules and throughout covid, many of them have not made sense.

The two people who have all the power in this situation are Martinez and Buendia. I fully appreciate they're in-between a rock and a hard place but ultimately they've gone against the original wishes of the club who pay them, and potentially may go against the compromise that was eventually made. 

Those two are the ones choosing to miss games for Aston Villa with the situation how it is. 

[DCJonah]

42 minutes ago, Villa87 said:

I think some people are being remarkably tolerant about this. If they play all 3 games and more to follow in later international breaks then it’s a **** farce. Forgetting the money spent on signing them and the platform provided for them to get picked for the national team, consider how much they are being paid every week. 

Yeah I'm very surprised at how many don't seem to mind the impact it will have on us. 

I want to see our players succeed on the international level, I ruined the euros for myself with an unhealthy obsession with Jack Grealish. But in this instance, Villa has to come first. Especially given all our issues in pre season and the stuttered start to the season. We know how important momentum can be and losing our keeper and key summer signing for multiple games can have a huge impact on that. 

[alreadyexists]

I suppose for me it’s now been agreed, there’s no point getting worked up about something we can’t change. 

[blandy]

Just now, DCJonah said:

they've gone against the original wishes of the club who pay them, and potentially may go against the compromise that was eventually made. 

Those two are the ones choosing to miss games for Aston Villa with the situation how it is. 

The Argentina FA could ask for them to be barred from playing for their clubs if they failed to report for duty. It's happened in the past with players who refused call ups for countries - any player refusing is liable to the Fifa rule that they can't play for their club during the international window plus five days after, so the Argie FA could ask for that to happen and they'd be even worse off - annoying their nation and their club. The compromise is a good way out.

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, blandy said:

The Argentina FA could ask for them to be barred from playing for their clubs if they failed to report for duty. It's happened in the past with players who refused call ups for countries - any player refusing is liable to the Fifa rule that they can't play for their club during the international window plus five days after, so the Argie FA could ask for that to happen and they'd be even worse off - annoying their nation and their club. The compromise is a good way out.

I do appreciate the situation they're in, but as I say they're the ones in control and we as a club  will suffer. I hope they follow through with the agreed compromise.