The AVFC FFP thread

[MaVilla]

3 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Some good charting of City and Chelsea income and how it's progressed over the years.

City pulling in just the £130m a year from their own owners through "sponsorship" 

The years we were out the PL were the worst to miss out on. It's when the money jumped massively across the board.

Interesting.

Is there anything out there showing whats Villas sponsors bring in etc?

[OutByEaster?]

23 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

Interesting.

Is there anything out there showing whats Villas sponsors bring in etc?

The accounts had us down for about £21m in total I think.

[Sulberto21]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

Purslow and Ibbetson made Chelsea's deals with Yokohama and Nike.

(Ibbetson was also part of the team that made Man Utds £750m Adidas deal),

Unfortunately I don't think we'll be bringing in half of that anytime soon. We're not attractive commercially.

[VillaChris]

14 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The accounts had us down for about £21m in total I think.

Still miles off which is probably no surprise. Brands want us in CL for a couple of years before coming on board I'd imagine.

We've debated this before but so much untapped potential, leading club by a mile in England's second city, 40k in every game, many marketable players making the England squad e.g. Jack and Mings (if you want a voice on equality in sport he's pretty high up currently I'd say) yet barriers remain. I wonder if not signing some sort of player known worldwide in his prime is stopping things as I assume Man. City got huge interest once they started signing likes of Aguero and Yaya Toure and made the CL the next season.

I can remember in early days of Lerner lots of patting ourselves on the back when Nike got involved with kit production and stuff but that didn't amount to much, almost as if we don't really feel worthy of the association. Hopefully that mentality will change under this ownership.

[VillaChris]

5 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

Unfortunately I don't think we'll be bringing in half of that anytime soon. We're not attractive commercially.

But that's the crux really. How do we build ourselves up in next decade to do that? Of course we don't have the London pull and all that but Man. City were just seen as an afterthought to Man. United up to 31st August 2008 so they've quickly caught up with all they've achieved in last decade and don't need to win a european cup to make millions commercially off the pitch.

Do more tours to Far East/USA? Sign more world wide known players in emerging football markets. As I said in last post hopefully we'll become top 6 club again soon in most watched league in world football so the opportunity should be there, just whether we can take it this time.

[MaVilla]

22 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The accounts had us down for about £21m in total I think.

thanks!

& yikes....that a huge difference!

Hopefully Purslow is working on something......

[Sulberto21]

5 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Still miles off which is probably no surprise. Brands want us in CL for a couple of years before coming on board I'd imagine.

We've debated this before but so much untapped potential, leading club by a mile in England's second city, 40k in every game, many marketable players making the England squad e.g. Jack and Mings (if you want a voice on equality in sport he's pretty high up currently I'd say) yet barriers remain. I wonder if not signing some sort of player known worldwide in his prime is stopping things as I assume Man. City got huge interest once they started signing likes of Aguero and Yaya Toure and made the CL the next season.

I can remember in early days of Lerner lots of patting ourselves on the back when Nike got involved with kit production and stuff but that didn't amount to much, almost as if we don't really feel worthy of the association. Hopefully that mentality will change under this ownership.

It was Robinho initially. It sent shockwaves through the football world. 

There is one way we can get more moolah. Adidas - isn't Nassef Sawiris on the board or a 5/6% shareholder? I'm sure there's some creative accounting there.

Edit - in response to the post you quoted by me. It's gotta be a Robinho esque signing. As much as I don't like that, to get more sponsorship deals and become attractive commercially we might have to do it. We'll break the top 6 once maybe twice if we continue on our current strategy. But to stay there we need to compete financially in terms of revenue. 

We need to get into the conversation of title contenders every season. Otherwise it'll be £20m - £30m commercial deals instead of the £75m +. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Sulberto21

[ender4]

3 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

But that's the crux really. How do we build ourselves up in next decade to do that? Of course we don't have the London pull and all that but Man. City were just seen as an afterthought to Man. United up to 31st August 2008 so they've quickly caught up with all they've achieved in last decade and don't need to win a european cup to make millions commercially off the pitch.

Do more tours to Far East/USA? Sign more world wide known players in emerging football markets. As I said in last post hopefully we'll become top 6 club again soon in most watched league in world football so the opportunity should be there, just whether we can take it this time.

Qualify for Europe for a few years in a row, and especially a couple of years in the Champions League.

Unfortunately, it’s almost impossible to qualify for the Champions League without having those massive sponsorship deals already bringing in the money.  

Catch-22 etc.

[VillaChris]

What do Leicester make each year commercially out of interest? That's obviously more comparable to us.

Had the miracle title win to sell around the world and played in CL the next season and with ownership they do promote themselves as much as possible in far east although of course a very difficult market for a new club to break into given the incredible hold Man. United and Liverpool have over there.

If they're raking in 50-75m range that should be realistic for us in next 5 years if we make some bold moves.

[sne]

Leicester also has a massive amount of money coming in from player sales most seasons. They've sold players for about £350m in the last 5 seasons. We could start doing that too but I think most, me included would be pretty unhappy if we sold Grealish, Konsa, Martinez and so on.

On the bright side we actually have salable assets these days.

[CVByrne]

We need to look at things differently to the bigger clubs. The new limits on loans means Chelsea model of income generation of buying players loaning them out and eventually selling them without them ever playing for the first team is dead. Max 8 loans out in a season now. 

We should develop two key areas, youth team development as we can give a path to first team quicker for young talent than the bigger clubs with stacked squads. Then moneyball type signings who we can buy for amounts below their true market value. Thus player sales from our team will be net income generation if we sign younger players from abroad/lower leagues. 

Do we have any player (who hasn't suffered an acl injury like Wes or Trez) who's market value has not increased in the past 18-24 months? Ultimately Jack will leave because he deserves the chance to play for a Club fighting for Premier League and Champions League every year. We will make 100m from that sale and free up a huge chunk of our wage bill too when that happens. 

We will ultimately have periods where we can be very competitive and challenge for top 4 and the cups and periods where we are struggling a bit and finish 8th or 9th. If we stick with our advantages over the bigger teams (more freedom to blood young players and unproven bargains from abroad) we will land on a crop of quality players who will ultimately do well on the pitch and generate large incomes when sold. 

The worst thing we could possibly do is try go for "marquee" signings whos value is unlikely to increase over time with us. Selling a Jack Grealish to blow the proceeds trying to "replace" Jack Grealish.

[sidcow]

16 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Do more tours to Far East/USA? Sign more world wide known players in emerging football markets. As I said in last post hopefully we'll become top 6 club again soon in most watched league in world football so the opportunity should be there, just whether we can take it this time.

I wonder if there will be any of those big international pre season friendly tournaments this year, and if 11th place gets you an invite. 

I remember us playing in one somewhere in the far East during the height of our Lerner years. Maybe not big enough yet and probably won't take place this year anyway but it does no harm to compete in a couple of those and beat some "big" teams in front of their global fanbase. 

[VillaChris]

6 hours ago, sne said:

Leicester also has a massive amount of money coming in from player sales most seasons. They've sold players for about £350m in the last 5 seasons. We could start doing that too but I think most, me included would be pretty unhappy if we sold Grealish, Konsa, Martinez and so on.

On the bright side we actually have salable assets these days.

I think it's too early for us to do that. Leicester actually dropped off pretty significantly when they sold Kante given how useless Drinkwater became.

When they moved on Mahrez they had likes of Maddison already playing well and Harvey Barnes doing well on loan. Same with Maguire and Soyuncu had already been at the club a year.

We're certainly not at that level for squad depth just yet, perhaps next summer we will be.

[Villaphan04]

I took this post from a man city forum where they were talking about Grealish. A few posters after him said that we actually voted against it, but i think a lot of parts in it are pretty true 

Quote

I have some sympathy for Villa fans in that Grealish leaving would be like us losing Foden.
However quoting how much money your owner has is **** worthless with FFP(yes its still here both PL and UEFA), as one of the turkeys that voted for Christmas you should realise that. You cant spend any of his money until your income streams can cover it. The drawbridge was being raised and you covered your eyes hoping it would all be all right hoping they would **** us because it didn't affect you. Well now it does because you want to get to where we are. It'll take you 20 years to get to where we did in 5 with a concerted maximisation of income and player purchase strategy but realistically you have no chance of getting a CL spot where the real money is.
Amidst all that Jack has to decide if he wants to stay in his little Villa pond and be a one club wonder boy with no trophies or use the talent he undoubtedly has at a higher level and see what he can really do surrounded by class. He could have his pick if he wants out. I realise he recently signed a decent contract at VIlla but surely that is to maintain his value if he goes. Villa are a great old club with a large fan base and have had plenty of success in the past but the illusion you can grow organically to compete with the big boys again is a delusion as the game is stacked against you. You and Everton and other great old clubs have been played like a fiddle in the great FFP stitch up. We warned you at the time but you didn't listen so now you have to stand in line and take it. You can wave your fake bank-notes at him when he comes back and boo and hiss if you like - no-one will give a ****!

 

[S-Platt]

3 minutes ago, Villaphan04 said:

I took this post from a man city forum where they were talking about Grealish. A few posters after him said that we actually voted against it, but i think a lot of parts in it are pretty true 

 

Thing is Randy for all his faults voted against FFP!! So hopefully any Villa fan on that site makes sure City fans know that!

[MrBlack]

7 hours ago, Villaphan04 said:

I took this post from a man city forum where they were talking about Grealish. A few posters after him said that we actually voted against it, but i think a lot of parts in it are pretty true 

 

Indeed, it is all entirely true, except for the fact that we voted for it...because we didn't. Which then makes the entire point of the post completely false. The parts of it that are true point out exactly why FFP needs binning off and replacing with something else.

FFP closed the stable door after the horse (fair competition) had bolted. That horse is still long gone, and isn't ever coming back unless the door is reopened. How they then entice the horse back in, and close the door with the horse in.. f$%k knows.

[DevonIsAPlaceOnEarth]

What is FFP? Asking for Norwich and Wolverhampton friends.

[sidcow]

7 hours ago, Villaphan04 said:

I took this post from a man city forum where they were talking about Grealish. A few posters after him said that we actually voted against it, but i think a lot of parts in it are pretty true 

 

Also doesn't explain how Leicester managed to not just compete but actually win The PL under FFP conditions. And whilst that might have been a one off never to be seen again miracle it didn't stop them winning the FA Cup this year and the only reason they failed to qualify for Champions League this year has zero to do with FFP and everything to do with them bottling it. 

I actually think FFP might hamstring many of the "big" clubs.  They've got tons of disappointing players on huge contracts that they need to get rid of before they can sign better players.  Only thing is they can't get rid of them. 

Meanwhile teams like us and Leicester are being smart and signing decent players on sustainable wages and breathing down their necks.  

[paul514]

6 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I actually think FFP might hamstring many of the "big" clubs.  They've got tons of disappointing players on huge contracts that they need to get rid of before they can sign better players.  Only thing is they can't get rid of them. 

I think this too.

When you sign a 23 year old for 25 million on 60k a week you have room for his value to grow and if it doesn't work out as planned you won't lose too much.

When you sign a 23 year old for 60 million on 200k a week there isn't much room and if it doesn't work out you lose a lot and find it difficult for someone else to pay the fee and the wages to the player for it to be worth HIS while moving.

Edited June 5, 2021 by paul514

[ciggiesnbeer]

FFP is dying, let it die .