The AVFC FFP thread

[OutByEaster?]

9 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

Those in charge have to bring back spending, if only a five or six clubs each league in the top of nations leagues spend, it's no spending at all really. It's no where near as much spending going on if they just allowed those who can spend to spend what they like.

It looks like the changes are based around ensuring that the clubs right at the top (Barca, Real etc) don't have to spend as much as they do at the moment in order to stay at the top - they're working out a way to restrict everyone else so that they can make it cheaper for the existing elite.

 

[Dave-R]

5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

It looks like the changes are based around ensuring that the clubs right at the top (Barca, Real etc) don't have to spend as much as they do at the moment in order to stay at the top - they're working out a way to restrict everyone else so that they can make it cheaper for the existing elite.

 

Well they should be made to spend to maintain a team to be competitive and it shouldn't be cheaper for clubs at the top to spend less than someone lower than them who wants to compete.

It all makes no sense really... 

How can a top positioned club spend less to maintain current position or better?? What do they start doing, handing out promotional offers like Ubereats and devleroo do to new customers. It's like make your first order sign a player and receive 20 million off your purchase, it's all madness. I just do not see how they can make it cheaper, cost is cost in football. Unless the powers that be want to start handing out offers and vouchers and losing money themselves (which I doubt that will ever come to pass because they are so greedy) I'm struggling to see where big clubs can spend less, maintain an excellent squad and stay at the top.

I'm not sure what all the costs are in order for these clubs to stay at the top actually are and to be honest is there even a cost for a club the higher they go the more they pay out to the league or UEFA? 

This spending less to stay at the top, I'm just trying to understand what this spending less in what areas means???

[ciggiesnbeer]

22 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Bottom of page three on this thread, there's a couple of links to UEFA bloke talking about it.

 

I read his full interview. He spends most of it denying FFP has failed, and that just because ManCity humiliated UEFA doesnt mean they were changing because ManCity won. Then he says FFP needs to change just "because" and football fans shouldn't assume it will get better, they may try and make it worse. He comes across as a petulant loser imho. I think its great

He can say what he likes, the loathed "break even" rule is now in the bin, thats the reality. He can spin whatever fantasies he likes of new meaningless rules. Good luck persuading actual football clubs again. They are not stupid. Who is going to sign up to cripple their own business when competitors get to invest?

Edited April 8, 2021 by ciggiesnbeer

[OutByEaster?]

3 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

This spending less to stay at the top, I'm just trying to understand what this spending less in what areas means???

I think they're looking for ways to reduce wages at the top and reduce transfer fees. In that way, the Spanish giants and Utd will be able to work towards reducing their debts.

To do that, they'll do team based wage caps and I think they'll impose a transfer spend limit per club, perhaps linked to their UEFA coefficient.

 

[Dave-R]

9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think they're looking for ways to reduce wages at the top and reduce transfer fees. In that way, the Spanish giants and Utd will be able to work towards reducing their debts.

To do that, they'll do team based wage caps and I think they'll impose a transfer spend limit per club, perhaps linked to their UEFA coefficient.

 

So will clubs who have the wealthiest owners that can spend be able to get the biggest transfer spend limit, if so then that's alright and we should be fine there..

The way I see it is each clubs owners should be made to disclose there finances and disclose all the info required that keeps them a top earner in the world. If all that happens I see no reason to add a spending limit so long as they don't blow there load.

Proof of your balance and incomings and outgoings should be enough to put you in a system where your spending is fairly calculated and a spending cap is then imposed per season..

Edited April 8, 2021 by Dave-R

[OutByEaster?]

2 hours ago, Dave-R said:

So will clubs who have the wealthiest owners that can spend be able to get the biggest transfer spend limit, if so then that's alright and we should be fine there..

You do realise this is exactly what FFP is designed to prevent?

UEFA are working very hard to make sure this doesn't happen. It'll be the opposite of this.

 

[paul514]

4 hours ago, Dave-R said:

Well they should be made to spend to maintain a team to be competitive and it shouldn't be cheaper for clubs at the top to spend less than someone lower than them who wants to compete.

It all makes no sense really... 

How can a top positioned club spend less to maintain current position or better?? What do they start doing, handing out promotional offers like Ubereats and devleroo do to new customers. It's like make your first order sign a player and receive 20 million off your purchase, it's all madness. I just do not see how they can make it cheaper, cost is cost in football. Unless the powers that be want to start handing out offers and vouchers and losing money themselves (which I doubt that will ever come to pass because they are so greedy) I'm struggling to see where big clubs can spend less, maintain an excellent squad and stay at the top.

I'm not sure what all the costs are in order for these clubs to stay at the top actually are and to be honest is there even a cost for a club the higher they go the more they pay out to the league or UEFA? 

This spending less to stay at the top, I'm just trying to understand what this spending less in what areas means???

It’s about the cost of running their clubs, in other words wages and fees which is where every clubs money goes. More wages than anything.

[paul514]

55 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

You do realise this is exactly what FFP is designed to prevent?

UEFA are working very hard to make sure this doesn't happen. It'll be the opposite of this.

 

People say that all the time I don’t think it’s true personally, I just think it’s a natural outcome of what they did. FFP was designed to stop the amount of unsustainable losses clubs were making and in that sense it has worked as the debt levels have reduced significantly.

They actually shouldn’t scrap FFP for some new bollocks that they are going to pull out their asses.

where do losses come from? fees and wages.

Ok so the way to sort this is really simple using the existing system. Introduce bonds and ban losses exceeding the current amounts that aren’t covered by those bonds.

That allows wealthy owners to invest as much as they like pumping money around the clubs and leagues who don’t have that luxury and stops the teams who try to get round FFP by giving them a straight forward way of investing.

So it would work like this.... you have to submit the details of a deal to the governing body of all the payments due and when they are to be made.

The wealthy owner then has to pay it all in one go for what will exceed FFP rules and it is then drawn down as payments become due.

problem solved.

Back on to our situation, I’m very interested in the first set of PL numbers, hopefully one of our resident accountants will go over it ASAP

[MaVilla]

11 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think they're looking for ways to reduce wages at the top and reduce transfer fees. In that way, the Spanish giants and Utd will be able to work towards reducing their debts.

To do that, they'll do team based wage caps and I think they'll impose a transfer spend limit per club, perhaps linked to their UEFA coefficient.

 

honestly, i wonder if they are trying to destroy football.......

[Dave-R]

9 hours ago, paul514 said:

It’s about the cost of running their clubs, in other words wages and fees which is where every clubs money goes. More wages than anything.

They let that get out of hand a long time ago..

So UEFA decide to tell players your earning less, that clubs will profit from this and if a player on 200k a week gets pulled down to half the wages (example), you can see the trouble this is going to cause. If a player who's on massive wages gets a decrease what does that say for players way way down who are on 10k or even less who need that living. Sure it's a nice thing on paper and looks all fine and dandy but if all players are to have wages cut, you will end up with a massive amount of people unable to live a life because football is the thing that keeps there lives running down at the bottom. I am concerned at how this would affect a players life, sure those at the top can make changes to lifestyle because they were on so much damn money but those at the bottom of the pond may have a different story.

 

[paul514]

41 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

They let that get out of hand a long time ago..

So UEFA decide to tell players your earning less, that clubs will profit from this and if a player on 200k a week gets pulled down to half the wages (example), you can see the trouble this is going to cause. If a player who's on massive wages gets a decrease what does that say for players way way down who are on 10k or even less who need that living. Sure it's a nice thing on paper and looks all fine and dandy but if all players are to have wages cut, you will end up with a massive amount of people unable to live a life because football is the thing that keeps there lives running down at the bottom. I am concerned at how this would affect a players life, sure those at the top can make changes to lifestyle because they were on so much damn money but those at the bottom of the pond may have a different story.

 

A cap on salaries would be a club cap not a player cap, that wouldn’t make sense 

[useless]

 

[Dante_Lockhart]

Debt free though.

[Rds1983]

 

[villa4europe]

"debt free" 

[MaVilla]

Interesting:

"The recruitment strategy is focused on securing talented young players on long-term contracts to build long-term asset value in our playing squad."

 

i mean, we knew that already in principle, but i wonder how that will balance against "proven/seasoned" top level talent coming in the the club, im sure this summer will tell us.

[paul514]

2 hours ago, Dante_Lockhart said:

Debt free though.

We already knew that.

[paul514]

2 hours ago, Rds1983 said:

 

I skimmed through this the obvious question is how much of that loss and the previous 2 years losses are applicable for FFP because there are all sorts of deductions to be made like the training ground expenses.

I just want to see how close to the line we are.

interesting on the 33 million Covid impact as well.

[DevonIsAPlaceOnEarth]

Our being debt free, despite making a £99.2mil loss, demonstrates that current FFP laws and long term financial stability are not extricably linked. 

Nassef and Wes have put their money where their mouth is. Another amazing thing is to consider that everyone got paid during lockdown, even casual staff, and not a penny of government relief was taken. Essentially, Nassef and Wes have paid to keep a lot of people going during these tough times when they had no benefit to do so - and still gave us a massive transfer budget. I hope these actions are never forgotten.

[ender4]

18 hours ago, Dave-R said:

So will clubs who have the wealthiest owners that can spend be able to get the biggest transfer spend limit, if so then that's alright and we should be fine there..

The way I see it is each clubs owners should be made to disclose there finances and disclose all the info required that keeps them a top earner in the world. If all that happens I see no reason to add a spending limit so long as they don't blow there load.

Proof of your balance and incomings and outgoings should be enough to put you in a system where your spending is fairly calculated and a spending cap is then imposed per season..

The whole point of FFP and the new incoming FFP is to stop new challengers like Villa, Leicester, etc ever breaking into the elite group of clubs.