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The AVFC FFP thread


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21 minutes ago, paul514 said:

Caps are illegal under EU law, I don't see the Premier League doing that anyway they will want to be the undisputed dominant league which we are currently and a cap will make it all equal.

What you mean all these star players don't come and play in England because of our glorious weather?

Edited by The Fun Factory
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28 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

What you mean all these star players don't come and play in England because of our glorious weather?

It's the haute-cuisine that they really move for.

Edited by sparrow1988
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2 hours ago, paul514 said:

Caps are illegal under EU law, I don't see the Premier League doing that anyway they will want to be the undisputed dominant league which we are currently and a cap will make it all equal.

From a corporate perspective the Premier league is slightly broken at the moment.

It's a television programme where a couple of the side characters have become really popular and are upsetting the stars - more people globally want to see Arsenal vs Tottenham than want to see Everton vs Leicester, even if in terms of league placings Everton vs Leicester is a bigger game. Every time that Leicester qualify for the Champions league, the value of Premier league TV rights is a tiny bit reduced - by volume, the most important customers that the Premier league has don't care about most of the teams in the league.

In Europe, the financial success of the Premier league and the addition of oil money and state ownerships is forcing bigger clubs to overspend to stay bigger, that's not sustainable for those big (and influential) clubs - they need to find a way to maintain their positions and UEFA needs to make sure they do because as long as those clubs are in the Champions league quarter finals, the rights remain extremely lucrative.

In England, the financial success of the Premier league is allowing the 'smaller' clubs to become more competitive and that's devaluing the product because it's giving global markets too much choice and too much unpredictability. A man in Thailand chose Arsenal because he expects to be in the mix for success each and every year, forever - when that's not the case, he doesn't necessarily switch to Leicester, he might switch to Bayern, he might switch to the Lakers - the Premier league can't abide that, so it's important that the stars of the show are kept in the limelight.

The Premier league will do anything it can to remain the dominant league, but that dominance is the domain of six clubs; it's Joey, Rachel, Ross, Monica, Chandler and Phoebe - if you start making episodes about Gunther, then people switch off and start watching Seinfeld. 

The people who make these rules see football for what it is, it's entertainment, it's a TV show, whatever they come up with you can be sure that it's intention will be to protect the value of the TV show, support its stars and prevent anything that might affect the value of those rights.

 

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5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

 

The Premier league will do anything it can to remain the dominant league, but that dominance is the domain of six clubs; it's Joey, Rachel, Ross, Monica, Chandler and Phoebe - if you start making episodes about Gunther, then people switch off and start watching Seinfeld. 

 

 

Come on  nobody cared about Ross.

The premier league is also similar in that all the cast live in clearly a unsustainable place given their income levels, but this is never clearly explained.

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6 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Having a infected spinal column in a  bap always sorts me out first thing in the morning.

Smothered in brown sauce. The forriners love the brown sauce.

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9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The Premier league will do anything it can to remain the dominant league, but that dominance is the domain of six clubs; it's Joey, Rachel, Ross, Monica, Chandler and Phoebe - if you start making episodes about Gunther, then people switch off and start watching Seinfeld. 

The question is will the breakaway end up more like Joey or Frasier?

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3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

In England, the financial success of the Premier league is allowing the 'smaller' clubs to become more competitive and that's devaluing the product because it's giving global markets too much choice and too much unpredictability.

I'm not sure I agree with that tiny bit. The genuine possibility that anyone can beat anyone makes the games more worthwhile watching, more enjoyable, on average than most other leagues. Even the overseas supporters of Red teams enjoy it more when (say) Man Ut'd beat Villa 2-1 in a tight game, than when they wallop Southampton 9-0. The competitiveness of the league is a major selling point, I think and adds value to the "product", rather than detract from it..

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4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

From a corporate perspective the Premier league is slightly broken at the moment.

It's a television programme where a couple of the side characters have become really popular and are upsetting the stars - more people globally want to see Arsenal vs Tottenham than want to see Everton vs Leicester, even if in terms of league placings Everton vs Leicester is a bigger game. Every time that Leicester qualify for the Champions league, the value of Premier league TV rights is a tiny bit reduced - by volume, the most important customers that the Premier league has don't care about most of the teams in the league.

In Europe, the financial success of the Premier league and the addition of oil money and state ownerships is forcing bigger clubs to overspend to stay bigger, that's not sustainable for those big (and influential) clubs - they need to find a way to maintain their positions and UEFA needs to make sure they do because as long as those clubs are in the Champions league quarter finals, the rights remain extremely lucrative.

In England, the financial success of the Premier league is allowing the 'smaller' clubs to become more competitive and that's devaluing the product because it's giving global markets too much choice and too much unpredictability. A man in Thailand chose Arsenal because he expects to be in the mix for success each and every year, forever - when that's not the case, he doesn't necessarily switch to Leicester, he might switch to Bayern, he might switch to the Lakers - the Premier league can't abide that, so it's important that the stars of the show are kept in the limelight.

The Premier league will do anything it can to remain the dominant league, but that dominance is the domain of six clubs; it's Joey, Rachel, Ross, Monica, Chandler and Phoebe - if you start making episodes about Gunther, then people switch off and start watching Seinfeld. 

The people who make these rules see football for what it is, it's entertainment, it's a TV show, whatever they come up with you can be sure that it's intention will be to protect the value of the TV show, support its stars and prevent anything that might affect the value of those rights.

 

I see the argument for the none English leagues but you are wrong on the Leicester Everton point.

those clubs have all risen at different points and had new clubs join them, any club that consistently places high will attract new fans to them, it’s the nature of football you only have to look at Chelsea or Man City for that.

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51 minutes ago, paul514 said:

you are wrong on the Leicester Everton point.

those clubs have all risen at different points and had new clubs join them, any club that consistently places high will attract new fans to them, it’s the nature of football you only have to look at Chelsea or Man City for that.

I think you're both right, really. Red teams have got more overseas telly fans. That's a fact. their games attract more viewers. But you're right that collectively, the more good teams there are the better the overall average viewing figures - 2 good team and all the other games attract no-one. 7 good teams and more games attract good viewing figures overall.

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59 minutes ago, blandy said:

I think you're both right, really. Red teams have got more overseas telly fans. That's a fact. their games attract more viewers. But you're right that collectively, the more good teams there are the better the overall average viewing figures - 2 good team and all the other games attract no-one. 7 good teams and more games attract good viewing figures overall.

Well that’s the point from the premier leagues view 

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Historically across Europes leagues for international viewers there's a sort of sweet spot. 

Fans like to support success and we live in a world of celebrity, in Spain that means they pick Real or Barca, in Germany Bayern, but apparently when winning becomes too regular people get bored and move on to something else. Where leagues in Europe have been more equitable and a lot of teams can win, people don't see enough of a return on the investment of their time and get bored and move on to something else.

The Premier league's success internationally is largely based on hitting a sweet spot where you can pick one of a limited number of teams, four or six, and you get to enjoy the emotion of striving for success and are rewarded regularly enough for it to seem worthwhile, the nature of just the right amount of competition keeps you hooked, allows you to develop genuine rivalries with friends that they sometimes win and you sometimes win and keeps international supporters interested. Adding more teams that can succeed reduces the regularity of reward too much, it's too diluted, and becomes less attractive as result. 

The French league was until fairly recently the most even league in Europe, the one that most teams felt they had a chance of winning, yet it has only developed international traction since PSG arrived and started signing players that global audiences want to watch. The league is now completely uncompetitive, but the product is more popular and more valuable, even though the product is now just 'look how good PSG are'.

As fans we're in the minority, for us this a sporting culture, it's where we're from, it has the personality of places, the history of teams, the traditions of our fathers - for the vast majority of Premier league fans none of that really matters, they just want to know they've picked a team that has a chance of winning but isn't guaranteed - that's the excitement of the ride.

Better competition isn't what those viewers are looking for, they've already got exactly the right amount of competition to keep them happy.

 

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6 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

From a corporate perspective the Premier league is slightly broken at the moment.

It's a television programme where a couple of the side characters have become really popular and are upsetting the stars - more people globally want to see Arsenal vs Tottenham than want to see Everton vs Leicester, even if in terms of league placings Everton vs Leicester is a bigger game. Every time that Leicester qualify for the Champions league, the value of Premier league TV rights is a tiny bit reduced - by volume, the most important customers that the Premier league has don't care about most of the teams in the league.

In Europe, the financial success of the Premier league and the addition of oil money and state ownerships is forcing bigger clubs to overspend to stay bigger, that's not sustainable for those big (and influential) clubs - they need to find a way to maintain their positions and UEFA needs to make sure they do because as long as those clubs are in the Champions league quarter finals, the rights remain extremely lucrative.

In England, the financial success of the Premier league is allowing the 'smaller' clubs to become more competitive and that's devaluing the product because it's giving global markets too much choice and too much unpredictability. A man in Thailand chose Arsenal because he expects to be in the mix for success each and every year, forever - when that's not the case, he doesn't necessarily switch to Leicester, he might switch to Bayern, he might switch to the Lakers - the Premier league can't abide that, so it's important that the stars of the show are kept in the limelight.

The Premier league will do anything it can to remain the dominant league, but that dominance is the domain of six clubs; it's Joey, Rachel, Ross, Monica, Chandler and Phoebe - if you start making episodes about Gunther, then people switch off and start watching Seinfeld. 

The people who make these rules see football for what it is, it's entertainment, it's a TV show, whatever they come up with you can be sure that it's intention will be to protect the value of the TV show, support its stars and prevent anything that might affect the value of those rights.

 

I'd watch an episode about Gunther. He's the Don. 

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6 hours ago, sparrow1988 said:

The question is will the breakaway end up more like Joey or Frasier?

For me it will be like The Green Green Grass. I will be aware of it's existence but never watch an episode.

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I think if FFP is scrapped then the Premier League will be even more dominant, the money the clubs will spend will be crackers.

I spose scrapping FFP and having anew system come into place sound like it will be solely dependant on a clubs Owners and there bank balances right. Obviously they won't be able to just spend the lot but let's say they have like 8 or 9 bill like our Owners, so long as those Owners can provide proof of regular same income, then there shouldn't be a problem in spending 200 to 400 million a season so long as a an Owner's can make it back with ease.

Certainly don't think FFP has helped us out one bit, if it hadn't of been there under these Owners then maybe we would of had some better caliber of player in this season. What ever system comes into place it has to be a system that has different criteria for clubs who can afford to spend and club who can't afford to spend big and the clubs that are more middle ground on this..

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All this talk of scrapping FFP and it being a free for all regarding clubs spending I think is way off the mark. It will be for some clubs, however the clubs are still companies who will have creditors to pay, ensure that they can pay for electricity and water, pay their staff on time, essentially run the business without it going bust.

Administration was never a result of FFP. It is a threat for all companies who spend beyond their means. We are very lucky in that our owners have very deep pockets and that the club is being run very efficiently. We are one of a few clubs who could benefit from relaxation in the rules.

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