The AVFC FFP thread

[briny_ear]

3 hours ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

So, well and truly screwed, maybe not, but very screwed...yes. 

Typical of Villa these days- we can't even get well and truly screwed.  

[dukes]

4 hours ago, sne said:

We've spent huge sums on Championship players, huge contracts to aging players with no sell on value and it's all been very short sighted IMO.

Apart from Terry who are these aging players ? 

The squad contains 3 players over 30, Hutton, terry and Jedinak.

the large contracts given to Terry and Jedinak obviously came under the current owner, but as I remember it Hutton's contract extension was triggered by him under a clause in his deal and there was nothing the current regime could do about that.

Obviously thee are concerns over the contacts of Gabby, and Richards, but I don't believe players signed from Brentford's and Barnsley are likely to be on £50k a week.

[sne]

Just now, dukes said:

Apart from Terry who are these aging players ? 

The squad contains 3 players over 30, Hutton, terry and Jedinak.

the large contracts given to Terry and Jedinak obviously came under the current owner, but as I remember it Hutton's contract extension was triggered by him under a clause in his deal and there was nothing the current regime could do about that.

Obviously thee are concerns over the contacts of Gabby, and Richards, but I don't believe players signed from Brentford's and Barnsley are likely to be on £50k a week.

That  would be the ones we've been linked to this summer. So fingers crossed it's just speculation and me worrying for nothing.

Although everyone is technically aging 

We currently have 13 players in the squad who are 28 or older (or 12 if Cissokho is gone, is he?) I really don't think we should add to that number unless it's someone extremely vital.

The squad is positively bloated and few if any of these older players has any sell on value. We certainly won't make profit on any of them.

[KHV]

19 minutes ago, dukes said:

Apart from Terry who are these aging players ? 

The squad contains 3 players over 30, Hutton, terry and Jedinak.

the large contracts given to Terry and Jedinak obviously came under the current owner, but as I remember it Hutton's contract extension was triggered by him under a clause in his deal and there was nothing the current regime could do about that.

Obviously thee are concerns over the contacts of Gabby, and Richards, but I don't believe players signed from Brentford's and Barnsley are likely to be on £50k a week.

Our wage bill was 88% of our revenue the year we went down. It hasn't got any better and we are in big trouble next season if we are still in the championship. The revenue drop next year is massive and we would have to clear out most of the squad but I doubt there will be many takers for any of the players

[jackbauer24]

If we are so screwed should we fail to get promoted this season then isn't there quite a strong argument for IGNORING FFP this season and going for it?

If we're in an all or nothing situation then why try to stay within FFP regulations if we'll fall foul of them next year regardless if we stay down? Spend a load (largely on midfield) to try and guarantee (as much as we can) promotion and use any slap on the wrist as the necessary cost of success. If we fail we're screwed anyway so saving us from a FFP fine will make little difference.

[dukes]

2 hours ago, sne said:

That  would be the ones we've been linked to this summer. So fingers crossed it's just speculation and me worrying for nothing.

Although everyone is technically aging 

We currently have 13 players in the squad who are 28 or older (or 12 if Cissokho is gone, is he?) I really don't think we should add to that number unless it's someone extremely vital.

The squad is positively bloated and few if any of these older players has any sell on value. We certainly won't make profit on any of them.

I don't disagree with any of that, but it's not what you originally said.

Edited July 15, 2017 by dukes

[dukes]

2 hours ago, KHV said:

Our wage bill was 88% of our revenue the year we went down. It hasn't got any better and we are in big trouble next season if we are still in the championship. The revenue drop next year is massive and we would have to clear out most of the squad but I doubt there will be many takers for any of the players

 Agreed

[TheAuthority]

6 hours ago, KHV said:

Our wage bill was 88% of our revenue the year we went down. It hasn't got any better and we are in big trouble next season if we are still in the championship. The revenue drop next year is massive and we would have to clear out most of the squad but I doubt there will be many takers for any of the players

Any decent players will get picked off for peanuts because other clubs will know we'll be desperate to get their wages off the books.

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread it's what happened to Leeds.

[sne]

7 hours ago, dukes said:

I don't disagree with any of that, but it's not what you originally said.

True, I should have been more clear.

As much as I would have liked it to, we don't get to start from scratch with Xia.

All the sins from Lerner still remains. High wages, contracts, playing squad...

Sadly we've continued to make some of the same mistakes.

[Tommo_b]

20 hours ago, tismyk said:

NO WE ARE NOT

This all day

[HanoiVillan]

Most of the responses in this thread make me wonder why we don't just fold the whole enterprise and find something better to do with our weekends. 

[Darth Villa]

Wyness and Xia have both stated FFP is not going to stop us signing the players Bruce wants this summer and they're working on contingency plans for next season. So unless those plans include selling Kodjia shouldn't we have more faith?

[TrentVilla]

8 hours ago, Darth Villa said:

Wyness and Xia have both stated FFP is not going to stop us signing the players Bruce wants this summer and they're working on contingency plans for next season. So unless those plans include selling Kodjia shouldn't we have more faith?

Actually, that isn't accurate.

What Wyness has actually said is;

"He has only asked for three or four players and we can do that.

We'll be able to do it easily from the proceeds of the players we are going to sell out and at the same time adhere to financial fair play rules, which are there, and very clear for us.

We are marginally just outside and have sort of breached the financial fair play, but we can easily adjust it with a mixture of commercial and player trading.

We have no fears of breaching fair play this year. But, of course, this is a factor."

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-chiefs-firm-response-13058258

Now there was an additional part of this quote in which Wyness says we will get Bruce's targets regardless. Yet the rest of the quote contridicts that which is why I excluded it.

I rather suspect at the time of this quote Wyness expected to be able to count on the sale of  Amavi. There is also I think an intended or unintended warning about concerns for FFP for next year.

It is after all next year people are concerned about.

Our parachute payment reduces by around £10m next season if we are still in this league. A drop in revenue means reduced spending power under FFP and the likely sale of high earners.

[Eastie]

Also alluded to the need for departures to bring in players - 

Bruce has been told he must sell to buy as Villa look to fall in line with Financial Fair Play regulations and is hopeful of raising over £25million.

Carlos Sanchez has already completed a £2.5million move to Fiorentina and chief executive Keith Wyness has revealed many more are expected to follow.

“There is a lot of tidying up and we have got to cut back. I would think there could be up to ten players going out this summer, which is probably right,” he said.

“Steve has three or four targets that he wants and I can do that from the disposals of the players. We already have plans and are in discussions. 

“There are a number of players on loan who we know the clubs want that we can sell and at the same time adhere to financial fair play rules, which are there, and very clear for us.”

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/05/18/aston-villa-plan-offload-10-players-fall-line-ffp-regulations/amp/

[hippo]

Is sell to buy seriously being discussed as to its presence or not ?

We haven't sold anyone and appear to be in a financial straight jacket until we do. Not that Glenn Whelan, Elmohaddy etc get the pulses racing. 

I happen to think our only chance of promotion this year is if RHM, Greene, Kienan Davis come good - 2 of those 3 firing would give me a glimmer of hope.

[wilko154]

Realistically when you look at the squad and even the amount of players available in friendlies this season you can see we should be looking to offload players before we bring more in.

There are at least 5 or 6 players that we should be looking to offload, if we can get bring in 2-3 players on lower wages than some of the players we have offloaded we are already in a better position.

Does anyone know how much Tony Xia can invest himself through sponsorship that would be taken into account on FFP? For example Recon are now going to be displayed on the match day shirts, is it possible that he could have sponsored the club indirectly with 200 million meaning that FFP is not a danger for us for the foreseeable future?

[tismyk]

1 hour ago, wilko154 said:

Realistically when you look at the squad and even the amount of players available in friendlies this season you can see we should be looking to offload players before we bring more in.

There are at least 5 or 6 players that we should be looking to offload, if we can get bring in 2-3 players on lower wages than some of the players we have offloaded we are already in a better position.

Does anyone know how much Tony Xia can invest himself through sponsorship that would be taken into account on FFP? For example Recon are now going to be displayed on the match day shirts, is it possible that he could have sponsored the club indirectly with 200 million meaning that FFP is not a danger for us for the foreseeable future?

Its what Man City do to get around FFP

[hippo]

1 hour ago, wilko154 said:

Realistically when you look at the squad and even the amount of players available in friendlies this season you can see we should be looking to offload players before we bring more in.

There are at least 5 or 6 players that we should be looking to offload, if we can get bring in 2-3 players on lower wages than some of the players we have offloaded we are already in a better position.

Does anyone know how much Tony Xia can invest himself through sponsorship that would be taken into account on FFP? For example Recon are now going to be displayed on the match day shirts, is it possible that he could have sponsored the club indirectly with 200 million meaning that FFP is not a danger for us for the foreseeable future?

no i believe that loophole has been closed - there are of course others. There is also the option of running us more profitability  thus cutting the losses - I thought thats what XIA \ Wyness were trying to do. I haven't seen any evidence of that at all. 

[omariqy]

If we fail to get up this season I fear we will be stuck down in this league for quite a while. I also don't expect us to get promoted this season. Wow that was a depressing post. 

[bobzy]

On 15/07/2017 at 22:02, jackbauer24 said:

If we are so screwed should we fail to get promoted this season then isn't there quite a strong argument for IGNORING FFP this season and going for it?

If we're in an all or nothing situation then why try to stay within FFP regulations if we'll fall foul of them next year regardless if we stay down? Spend a load (largely on midfield) to try and guarantee (as much as we can) promotion and use any slap on the wrist as the necessary cost of success. If we fail we're screwed anyway so saving us from a FFP fine will make little difference.

We don't know what sanctions would be imposed on the club and FFP testing occurs in March.

Let's say we spend £100m this window in an attempt to get promoted. In March, we're top of the league by 8 points but also are assessed and found to fail to meet FFP requirements. The punishment is a 15 point deduction. We don't get promoted because of this.

Not a risk worth taking IMO.

I remember when Xia came in that the majority of fans were clamouring for someone to spend big. In many ways, we're getting what we deserve.