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Villan NOT Villain


nrogers

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sorry if i sound rather silly here but the Villa Villain, is supposed to be a villain isn't he? otherwise it doesn't make sense

considering the main mod on H&V spells it Villains, and he's wrote books on Villas history, surely it goes without saying that Villain is the correct term?

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sorry if i sound rather silly here but the Villa Villain, is supposed to be a villain isn't he? otherwise it doesn't make sense

considering the main mod on H&V spells it Villains, and he's wrote books on Villas history, surely it goes without saying that Villain is the correct term?

Weren't H&V told they mustn't spell it Villan, something about Villa holding the copyright on the word? I'm sure I read that somewhere.

In the 70s we tended to talk about Villa, and you didn't hear much about Villains or Villans outside of newspapers. The Sports Argus writers used to keep the Villa(i)ns thing alive in the same way that Albion were always referred to as the Throstles, even though Albion fans to a man called them the Baggies.

The only other time I used to hear Villains/Villans in those days was

1. in the voice of the TV commentator Hugh Johns. He used to come out with things like "The Villains of Villa Park".

(He also used to come out with a lot of pseudo-American crap about it being "a whole new ball game" and when the ball went out for a corner he would say "Whoa! Corner ball!" Don't know whether he copied Brian Moore or Brian Moore copied him or whether it was ITV policy for everyone to sound "nice and transatlantic".)

2. A song sung by the Holte End around that time. The Dubliners had had a hit with their version of an Irish folksong, Black Velvet Band and to the tune of the chorus of this the Holte used to sing "We are the Villa Villains..."

The Villain/Villan, spell it how you will, was pretty dormant around this period and the late 60s too. I often used to wonder where he had got to, because my earliest football memories are of the buildup to the 1957 FA Cup Final and the funny chap on the badge (in briny-ear's post) was in evidence around that time. Though again mainly I think in the Sports Argus and the long, long defunct Birmingham Mail "Blue 'Un".

Briny-ear mentions Villa'n as a spelling. I don't remember that but it seems very very likely to me. The Villa ones > The Villa 'uns > The Villa'ns. Makes sense. And it what would also make sense is The Villa'ns > The Villans.

FFS someone ask John Lerwill!

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sorry if i sound rather silly here but the Villa Villain, is supposed to be a villain isn't he? otherwise it doesn't make sense

considering the main mod on H&V spells it Villains, and he's wrote books on Villas history, surely it goes without saying that Villain is the correct term?

Weren't H&V told they mustn't spell it Villan, something about Villa holding the copyright on the word? I'm sure I read that somewhere.

In the 70s we tended to talk about Villa, and you didn't hear much about Villains or Villans outside of newspapers. The Sports Argus writers used to keep the Villa(i)ns thing alive in the same way that Albion were always referred to as the Throstles, even though Albion fans to a man called them the Baggies.

The only other time I used to hear Villains/Villans in those days was

1. in the voice of the TV commentator Hugh Johns. He used to come out with things like "The Villains of Villa Park".

(He also used to come out with a lot of pseudo-American crap about it being "a whole new ball game" and when the ball went out for a corner he would say "Whoa! Corner ball!" Don't know whether he copied Brian Moore or Brian Moore copied him or whether it was ITV policy for everyone to sound "nice and transatlantic".)

2. A song sung by the Holte End around that time. The Dubliners had had a hit with their version of an Irish folksong, Black Velvet Band and to the tune of the chorus of this the Holte used to sing "We are the Villa Villains..."

The Villain/Villan, spell it how you will, was pretty dormant around this period and the late 60s too. I often used to wonder where he had got to, because my earliest football memories are of the buildup to the 1957 FA Cup Final and the funny chap on the badge (in briny-ear's post) was in evidence around that time. Though again mainly I think in the Sports Argus and the long, long defunct Birmingham Mail "Blue 'Un".

Briny-ear mentions Villa'n as a spelling. I don't remember that but it seems very very likely to me. The Villa ones > The Villa 'uns > The Villa'ns. Makes sense. And it what would also make sense is The Villa'ns > The Villans.

FFS someone ask John Lerwill!

I wouldn't argue with any single point you made there, just about spot on I think.

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that Albion were always referred to as the Throstles,

Momentarily O/T. I sometimes drink with an ex-Boggie (class of mid 50's) who refers to them ONLY as the Throstles :) Cool or wha :)

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2. A song sung by the Holte End around that time. The Dubliners had had a hit with their version of an Irish folksong, Black Velvet Band and to the tune of the chorus of this the Holte used to sing "We are the Villa Villains..."

Can someone tell my WHY this disappeared ?? That'd be a great chant. Distinctive melody, simple to learn, everyone knows the tune and it would be uniquely ours !!

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Ian Berry has just e-mailed me to contribute some clarification as to the term "Villan".

There was once a very imaginitive sports reporter by the name of Jack Urry (whose name has cropped up in another history thread) who - way back ca. 1880 - concocted the term "Villan" (as opposed to "Villain") and it has stuck ever since.

Jack Urry (who followed the Villa as a reporter and supporter from ca 1879) later wrote many articles for the Villa News and Record between 1906 and 1926. He died in 1928.

It was Jack Urry that also concocted the word "daisycutter" to describe a shot that skimmed over the grass.

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So much for

Simply put the term Villan is Ellesian
Ask any Villa fan over a certain age, just like Mike did with his dad and they'll tell you the original spelling was the correct English version of the word not some made up word
then?
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So much for
Simply put the term Villan is Ellesian
Ask any Villa fan over a certain age, just like Mike did with his dad and they'll tell you the original spelling was the correct English version of the word not some made up word
then?

Well, that's just folklore, sir. You seem to be asserting that folklore has precedence over fact. Beyond reasonable doubt, the term "Villan" was concocted by Jack Urry, as he concocted other terms that came into general usage. It's recorded in history, as my 1,000-plus hours of research has revealed.

This and many other finds from my researches will appear in my forthcoming book, "The Aston Villa Chronicles".

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Does anyone really care that much??

In these days of results, results, results as being the be-all and end-all of everything, I can understand the question. But I suspect that the older section of the suppporters will agree with me that what happened 20 or 30 or 40 years ago is very meaningful in their lives.

I therefore suggest that as time goes by - and the older groups leave for the big football field in the sky - there becomes a void that becomes increasingly difficult to fill.

I hope that the historians that spend time on unearthing all the strange quirks and events of times gone by will prove to have helped in filling that void.

And, as I've found for myself, there is such a void in the general supporters' knowledge of the club (despite the appearance of some good books around ten years ago) that when they read the old history they'll get a tinge of sadness that those times have passed on.

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