Freedom for Tooting! And other similar nutty fringe communities

[ml1dch]

15 minutes ago, Jareth said:

The greatest danger to the SNP dream of independence is the tories losing power - a bit of reinforced federalism from Labour and the swing voters on the independence debate will be fully no to the idea.

Spot on. I think the next election will answer a question that I've wondered about for a while, how much of the SNP support is pro-independence, pro-SNP and how much of it is just the more effective anti-Tory vote of the last three / four elections. 

I get the feeling that the SNP might not like the answer. 

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

To be fair that seems to be the narrative being pushed by the two candidates who think it's a stitch up. And as the figures came from the SNP...

That’s what I’m saying, there was nothing about that context in the article i watched. It was like they were too excited by the news to give it any context just quick, go and stand outside a building in the rain and announce membership of the SNP has collapsed and its a disaster, then we’ll turn to another journalist in the studio ask for their opinion on this apparent disaster for the SNP who’s membership has collapsed, and they will agree yes, this collapse is a disaster. Then on to the next article about something else…

It was just a bit weird.

[blandy]

57 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

That’s what I’m saying, there was nothing about that context in the article i watched. It was like they were too excited by the news to give it any context just quick, go and stand outside a building in the rain and announce membership of the SNP has collapsed and its a disaster, then we’ll turn to another journalist in the studio ask for their opinion on this apparent disaster for the SNP who’s membership has collapsed, and they will agree yes, this collapse is a disaster. Then on to the next article about something else…

It was just a bit weird.

It's the way a lot of non-in depth journalism works, regardless of media organisation. SNP announces membership has dropped a lot. Media covers drop in membership as "the" story. It's not an in depth examination or investigation into why, or what that means for the funding of the party, or anything outside the fairly narrow confines of a race between candidates to be its leader. It's never going to be that informative. Most media articles or video clips you know what's in them from reading the headline.

For the SNP, I agree with others - the apparent collapse in support for the Tories is a bad thing for them. They need each other to be strong. As soon as Scotland's voters have a valid, credible choice between non-Tory parties, then they no longer have to coalesce around a monolith. It was the same when Labour used to rule Scotland - it was them or the Tories, really. The Labour monolith took their control for-granted, ran out of steam and became fat and complacent and all of a sudden they were nowhere. The same may happen to the SNP. While Brexit initially boosted the SNP, the utter mess its left us in will likely be a counter to that. Once bitten, twice shy. Independence isn't better than "dependence", perhaps the evidence shows - not that the UK was dependent on the EU, or Scotland on "Westminster". That the arrangements weren't or aren't perfect is one thing. That there is no way to rectify the wrongs other than independence (with all the adverse consequences as well as the "freedom") is not necessarily a claim that people will buy.

[chrisp65]

40 minutes ago, blandy said:

It's the way a lot of non-in depth journalism works, regardless of media organisation. SNP announces membership has dropped a lot. Media covers drop in membership as "the" story. It's not an in depth examination or investigation into why, or what that means for the funding of the party, or anything outside the fairly narrow confines of a race between candidates to be its leader. It's never going to be that informative. Most media articles or video clips you know what's in them from reading the headline.

For the SNP, I agree with others - the apparent collapse in support for the Tories is a bad thing for them. They need each other to be strong. As soon as Scotland's voters have a valid, credible choice between non-Tory parties, then they no longer have to coalesce around a monolith. It was the same when Labour used to rule Scotland - it was them or the Tories, really. The Labour monolith took their control for-granted, ran out of steam and became fat and complacent and all of a sudden they were nowhere. The same may happen to the SNP. While Brexit initially boosted the SNP, the utter mess its left us in will likely be a counter to that. Once bitten, twice shy. Independence isn't better than "dependence", perhaps the evidence shows - not that the UK was dependent on the EU, or Scotland on "Westminster". That the arrangements weren't or aren't perfect is one thing. That there is no way to rectify the wrongs other than independence (with all the adverse consequences as well as the "freedom") is not necessarily a claim that people will buy.

Yeah, similar but different opinion here. I’d say short term people will need to be reminded that Labour didn’t really change much when they were in power, even when they had the double up of being in power in Westminster as well.

I think this is a delay. 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

I’d say short term people will need to be reminded that Labour didn’t really change much when they were in power, even when they had the double up of being in power in Westminster as well.

I guess. I wonder though whether Labour will have to, in order to get re-elected again, should they win next time, actually take a bit more care and attention on Scotland (and Wales). I would suspect the complacency and consequential neglect of some things has gone now, after so long out of power. The SNP has the opposite problem. They've been in power for ages, and while they say they work for the best of Scotland's interests, many people will think they have Independence as their primary driver, regardless of and to the detriment of other things and areas. I'm also not entirely sure "Labour didn't change much" last time they were in power. I think they changed a lot, though whether people liked that or didn't is another question. I guess enough didn't feel enough was done, as you say, otherwise they'd not have chosen the SNP.

[bickster]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

I’d say short term people will need to be reminded that Labour didn’t really change much when they were in power, even when they had the double up of being in power in Westminster as well.

You mean apart from the Scottish Devolution Bill of 1997?

[chrisp65]

11 minutes ago, bickster said:

You mean apart from the Scottish Devolution Bill of 1997?

In power in Scotland, the Scottish Parliament didn’t come up with the Devolution Bill, whatever Labour did in the first decade or so of the Scottish Parliament clearly didn’t inspire people sufficiently to vote them in a third time. 

[chrisp65]

24 minutes ago, blandy said:

I guess. I wonder though whether Labour will have to, in order to get re-elected again, should they win next time, actually take a bit more care and attention on Scotland (and Wales). I would suspect the complacency and consequential neglect of some things has gone now, after so long out of power. The SNP has the opposite problem. They've been in power for ages, and while they say they work for the best of Scotland's interests, many people will think they have Independence as their primary driver, regardless of and to the detriment of other things and areas. I'm also not entirely sure "Labour didn't change much" last time they were in power. I think they changed a lot, though whether people liked that or didn't is another question. I guess enough didn't feel enough was done, as you say, otherwise they'd not have chosen the SNP.

Yes, as my answer to Bicks, if they did do enough to inspire people in that first decade, it would be odd that their reward was to be kicked out.

I do understand there was likely backlash because of Westminster and the crash, but if they suffered because of others then they only have themselves to blame for not having a sufficiently distinct offer. 

[blandy]

3 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Yes, as my answer to Bicks, if they did do enough to inspire people in that first decade, it would be odd that their reward was to be kicked out.

I do understand there was likely backlash because of Westminster and the crash, but if they suffered because of others then they only have themselves to blame for not having a sufficiently distinct offer. 

I agree, pretty much. The only caveat is that electorates get bored of governments after a period and that always weighs against long term incumbents, whatever they offer.

[ml1dch]

SNP Chief Executive (and husband of Nicola Sturgeon) Peter Murrell resigns. 

Labour really are getting all the political luck at the moment. 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

2 hours ago, ml1dch said:

SNP Chief Executive (and husband of Nicola Sturgeon) Peter Murrell resigns. 

Labour really are getting all the political luck at the moment. 

I think they are finished (The SNP),  it sort of crumbled in 2 days.

They are trying to halt the FM election I think also as it just cant be trusted.

There is more to come out apparently.  They got found out,  nobody can lead this coming in as it is.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

SNP MP's x 4 have accidentally re-tweeted a Parody account claiming they had got 5,000 new members in 24 hours so its all lies about them losing members.

It's so idiotic it even made some newspapers.  Just what they needed.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Amsterdam_Neil_D

[ml1dch]

No big surprise

 

[The Fun Factory]

That is a tiny majority. He doesn't have much support if it starts to go wrong.

[Anthony]

7 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

That is a tiny majority. He won't have much support when it starts to go wrong.

FTFY

[tonyh29]

Final ratio is basically 52-48

 

so legal challenges and accusations that the 52 % didn't fully understand what they were voting for next then  

[Xela]

SNP in good hands

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

The SNP is over,  Murrell arrested. 

This is why Sturgeon suddenly stood down as she didn't want to be arrested whilst FM I suspect.

The SNP was created to do something that can't be done by people who couldn't do it and knew it and convinced some followers to make them  very wealthy indeed by telling them they are doing the thing that can't be done and now it's all over. It was all a waste of everyone's time.  The SNP was just a get rich quick scheme for those at the top and now it has thankfully disintegrated. 

 

[StefanAVFC]

Right wing grifters attacking Sturgeon whilst also bemoaning the arrest of Trump as an insult to democracy...

[chrisp65]

I don’t think it would be the wildest speculation that she saw this fast approaching and had to bail out rather sharpish. 

The question would be how long did NS know? Was she potentially complicit in something for a long time, or was there a bit of a domestic review meeting quite recently where he sat her down and said it’s always important to be honest, so I have a little tiny bit of news I think I should probably share…