Odsonne Edouard

[alf_stewart]

On yer od, sonne...

[AntrimBlack]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I think your point is a valid one.

I have not seen him play either, so just talking in general....but I think a tell tale sign with strikers is their movement and that being central to their success.....his goal scoring ratio is very impressive, but as you say the league he plays in can be benevolent...so its a risk.

but some fine players have emerged from celitic and gone on the shine, just as there have been failures......I think his movement is a clue, to him being a success in the Prem or not......static strikers usually fail.

I cannot comment, because, i haven't seen him play.

What a gentlemanly way to put it. Well done. 

[DaveAV1]

45 minutes ago, SeanVilla said:

This just isn't the case though is it? Otherwise championship players would be actively seeking moves to the Scottish league so they can score 20+ goals every season and be sold to the premier league for £30mill+... Arsenal have been monitoring him for a while and Leicester seem interested also, even though Celtic want £40mill. They may as well get Scott Hogan as we'd give him away for free.

To be fair how many have recently come south for big money? Plus only Celtic and Rangers can pay anything like decent wages and that is probably generally less than these guys can get in the Championship. 
 

So as a business model, popping up to Scotland for a couple of years, even to The Old Firm, then coming back for big bucks just doesn’t generally work. 
 

There are still good players up in Scotland, we know we found one, but it’s not the breeding ground it was. Sadly. 

[Adam2003]

44 minutes ago, SeanVilla said:

This just isn't the case though is it? Otherwise championship players would be actively seeking moves to the Scottish league so they can score 20+ goals every season and be sold to the premier league for £30mill+... Arsenal have been monitoring him for a while and Leicester seem interested also, even though Celtic want £40mill. They may as well get Scott Hogan as we'd give him away for free.

Because scoring 20+ goals DOESN’T get you that move to the Prem very often. I gave the example in my post of the likes of Kris Boyd (101 goals in 143 games for Rangers, standout striker in the SPL, earned a move to Championship Middlesbrough, wasn’t very good). You’re applying faulty logic because my point is that scoring 20+ goals in the SPL doesn’t even guarantee you’ll be that good a Championship player - the opposite of what you’re saying (that it will get you a PL move).

And to your Hogan point - again, you’re missing the point. He would score 20+ for Celtic. He wouldn’t for Leicester. 

You are making a false equivalence that that means I am saying Edouard is only as good as Hogan. I am not. Edouard might be brilliant - I don’t know that. He might be a Henrik Larsson who can play at any level, in which case I very much hope we get him. My point was just you can’t judge that on SPL goal return because almost ANYONE who goes up there to play for the Old Firm bags a ton of goals. 
 

[SeanVilla]

4 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

To be fair how many have recently come south for big money? Plus only Celtic and Rangers can pay anything like decent wages and that is probably generally less than these guys can get in the Championship. 
 

So as a business model, popping up to Scotland for a couple of years, even to The Old Firm, then coming back for big bucks just doesn’t generally work. 
 

There are still good players up in Scotland, we know we found one, but it’s not the breeding ground it was. Sadly. 

Last one was Moussa Dembele. Has done well for Lyon (Champions League Semi Finalists)

I'm in my mid twenties so I've got no recollection of it being a breeding ground. Guess that's down to the money involved.

[rayk]

4 hours ago, Mazrim said:

You're like the Black Knight from Holy Grail. Arguing the toss without any legs.

Lennon confirmed Celtic matched our bid. McGinn could have chosen Celtic. He chose Villa. He even said there was only one place he was going. Villa.

You're wrong. Just let it go.

Firstly you don’t tell me what I can post or not.

Secondly, I’m not wrong. This is a quote from Lennon (who was obviously Hibs manager when Celtic bid for SJM).

Quote

Lennon said: "I think John's background and with Celtic coming in early with a couple of bids which were turned down it always meant Celtic were in pole position.

"But it was always the likelihood with the calibre of player John is there would be interest from elsewhere and that was the case."

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/neil-lennon-brendan-rodgers-celtic-13080440

Ie Given SJMs links with Celtic they were always the number one club for him, BUT they had bids turned down and then we came in for him.
 

You show me a direct quote from Lennon which says Hibs accepted an offer for SJM by Celtic?

Edited August 24, 2020 by rayk

[DaveAV1]

I think we all agree that there is a big difference between the quality of the SPL and the Premier League and judging whether a player can make the leap is the key thing.
 

What we need to do now is to place faith in our new recruitment team to be able to sort the wheat from the chaff. They won’t always get it right, no one does, but getting one or two right, perhaps Edouard, early on will really help us a lot. 

[SeanVilla]

8 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

Because scoring 20+ goals DOESN’T get you that move to the Prem very often. I gave the example in my post of the likes of Kris Boyd (101 goals in 143 games for Rangers, standout striker in the SPL, earned a move to Championship Middlesbrough, wasn’t very good). You’re applying faulty logic because my point is that scoring 20+ goals in the SPL doesn’t even guarantee you’ll be that good a Championship player - the opposite of what you’re saying (that it will get you a PL move).

And to your Hogan point - again, you’re missing the point. He would score 20+ for Celtic. He wouldn’t for Leicester. 

You are making a false equivalence that that means I am saying Edouard is only as good as Hogan. I am not. Edouard might be brilliant - I don’t know that. He might be a Henrik Larsson who can play at any level, in which case I very much hope we get him. My point was just you can’t judge that on SPL goal return because almost ANYONE who goes up there to play for the Old Firm bags a ton of goals. 
 

Ah okay, I misunderstood your point. I thought you were saying he's not good because anyone could score 20+ goals in Scotland. I'm the same as you in that i'm not saying that means he's a good player, but I've watched him quite a bit and spoken to Celtic fans who say he's the best striker they've had since Larsson. He's absolutely quality and unfortunately probably out of our reach at this moment in time.

[Adam2003]

Just now, SeanVilla said:

Ah okay, I misunderstood your point. I thought you were saying he's not good because anyone could score 20+ goals in Scotland. I'm the same as you in that i'm not saying that means he's a good player, but I've watched him quite a bit and spoken to Celtic fans who say he's the best striker they've had since Larsson. He's absolutely quality and unfortunately probably out of our reach at this moment in time.

Yeah we are on the same page - maybe he’s brilliant. Larsson spent years with the same question mark then went and won a CL final for Barcelona. Vennegoor scored bucketloads then flopped at Hull. If we get him I hope he’s closer to the former than the latter. If we don’t get him and someone else in the PL does I hope he’s a flop... 

[skarroki]

Is there anyone left on VillaTalk who hasn't given there opinion of the difference in quality between English and Scottish football? I don't think it's been comprehensively covered enough. 

[Mazrim]

14 minutes ago, rayk said:

Firstly you don’t tell me what I can post or not.

Secondly, I’m not wrong. This is a quote from Lennon (who was obviously Hibs manager when Celtic bid for SJM).

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/neil-lennon-brendan-rodgers-celtic-13080440

Ie Given SJMs links with Celtic they were always the number one club for him, BUT they had bods turned down and then we came in for him.
 

You show me a direct quote from Lennon which says Hibs accepted an offer for SJM by Celtic?

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/celtic-match-john-mcginn-offer-13049219

The first line of your reply is just bizarre to be honest. I think you're a little... off balance.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Mazrim

[Sulberto21]

The difference between the Scottish League and the English leagues......

[Sulberto21]

Just now, Mazrim said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/celtic-match-john-mcginn-offer-13049219

Ouch. Povetkin uppercut!

[Mazrim]

2 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

Ouch. Povetkin uppercut!

He leads with his chin. What can I say?

[rayk]

8 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/celtic-match-john-mcginn-offer-13049219

Okay, not seen that before. But Celtic’s offer at the last minute is ‘understood’ to have matched Villa’s and Lennon ‘thinks’ it matched ours. Very vague indeed.

Nothing to say Celtic’s bid was accepted which is the key point. Sounds very likely that it wasn’t (because it was performance related?).

Edited August 24, 2020 by rayk

[rayk]

5 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

Ouch. Povetkin uppercut!

Nope, nothing to say that Celtic’s bid was accepted by Hibs.

[DaveAV1]

7 minutes ago, SeanVilla said:

Last one was Moussa Dembele. Has done well for Lyon (Champions League Semi Finalists)

I'm in my mid twenties so I've got no recollection of it being a breeding ground. Guess that's down to the money involved.

I’m unfortunately not in my mid 20s and so can recall loads of great players from Scotland. Our very own Andy Gray, Alex Cropley, Ken McNaught, Des Bremner and of course Dalgleish and Souness were ok too. Back then it was a production line heading south. 

It ended when the TV money kicked in and Scottish clubs could suddenly attract players from abroad and stopped developing their own. This has also happened down here but the money is so much more down here clubs can afford to just keep spending. Or at least up to a point, clubs are now seeing the benefits of a good academy again. However again Premier League clubs can spend millions on their academies and so they just hoover up all the promising kids. 

TV money hasn’t been good for football in many ways but it’s been disastrous for Scottish football. Their national team goes from crisis to crisis. Oh well never mind. 

[Mazrim]

1 minute ago, rayk said:

Okay, not seen that before. But Celtic’s offer at the last minute is ‘understood’ to have matched Villa’s and Lennon ‘thinks’ it matched ours. Very vague indeed.

Nothing to say Celtic’s bid was accepted which is the key point. Sounds very likely that it wasn’t because it was performance related.

You need to stop now. You're naking a fool of yourself and for what?

You have quotes saying that Celtic matched the bid and the decision is with the player. What did the player do?

So, to sum up. You said there's no way McGinn would choose Villa over Celtic if Celtic matched our bid. He did. And while we were in the Championship.

[pete101]

3 minutes ago, rayk said:

Okay, not seen that before. But Celtic’s offer at the last minute is ‘understood’ to have matched Villa’s and Lennon ‘thinks’ it matched ours. Very vague indeed.

Nothing to say Celtic’s bid was accepted which is the key point. Sounds very likely that it wasn’t because it was performance related.

His agent spoke to Celtic about personal terms.

It wouldn't get to that point without Hibs giving permission, hence the bid was accepted

[rayk]

5 minutes ago, rayk said:

Okay, not seen that before. But Celtic’s offer at the last minute is ‘understood’ to have matched Villa’s and Lennon ‘thinks’ it matched ours. Very vague indeed.

Nothing to say Celtic’s bid was actually accepted which is the key point. Sounds very likely that it wasn’t (because it was performance related?).