Ollie Watkins

[peterw]

45 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Once again that's not what I'm writing at all. But it's clear your not interested in that. 

You said:

If they can't handle a bit of stick, get a job for £40 k a year like normal people.

you also said:

The reason they make crazy money and very simple lives, is not only because they are good at a spesific thing, but also cause their position in the public eye is compensated. If that's unwanted, get a new job and a much harder life. 

and not forgetting:

What I'm saying is that when you choose this very priviliged public profession, that’s incredibly well paid and offers a life most people can only dream of, then a bit of stick and criticism when you don't perform goes with it. You can't expect it both ways. 

It may be your position that stick happens when you're in the public eye, and yes it is. but your opening gambit here is if you can't handle it then do something else. Well, no, if they can't handle they may need professional help. And as i said, would you have just wandered up to Mrs Speed at the funeral and said, 'if only he would've have just got a normal job he could've avoided this, eh'?

I see your point but that you can't see where you are massively wide of the mark, is starting to speak volumes.

[Skruff]

21 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Try reading my posts. If my English is inadequate just quote it and I'll elaborate. 

I've read it, and got the same impression as most people who reacted to your post. It's seems pretty clear what you're saying. But you yourself is saying that's not what I'm writing. So I thought I'd ask. But your respons says it all really. 

[Delphinho123]

If we can’t get Watkins we need to have a look at ourselves. Ex manager, relationship is there, we’re arguably the biggest club in for him (I suspect), we’re loaded. 

It shouldn’t be that hard to get a deal over the line for him. Everything is in our favour regardless of his ability. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

6 minutes ago, peterw said:

It may be your position that stick happens when you're in the public eye, and yes it is. but your opening gambit here is if you can't handle it then do something else. Well, no, if they can't handle they may need professional help. And as i said, would you have just wandered up to Mrs Speed at the funeral and said, 'if only he would've have just got a normal job he could've avoided this, eh'?

I see your point but that you can't see where you are massively wide of the mark, is starting to speak volumes.

You are trying to create something out of nothing here. Speed had personal issues. If people have personal issues that's an entirely different debate. Nobody is joking with mental health. 

What was discussed here was whether it's legitimate to criticise and give stick to players when they are playing shit. And it obviously is. 

The reason they are paid to the extent they are, is not solely because of talent, but also because it's a HUGE entertainment industry. Part of that profession is that you are compensated for the impracticalities of being in the public eye financially. Just like heaps of other celebrities are in other professions. 

If you can't hack the idea of criticism and stick, and that becomes to much of a bother to you. Find another profession. 

Shit I'm not good with flying anymore, so I couldn't be a pilot even if a wanted to. Not everyone are ment to do all kinds of work. 

The fact that 15 people have liked a post thinking this is the equivalent story of "we should have sold Petrov etc" is absolutely hilarious, cause there you got 15 people who really can't connect the dots. Criticising a player's performance(s) does not equate to saying that player should be sold. Lots of players improve and need time, but it doesn't mean they are protected from stick when being shit. 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara

[Sulberto21]

If we sign Watkins and he doesn't show the ability to succeed I won't be giving him Vitriol like one or two who resort to calling players names and shit. I'll also watch the games with a keen eye and look for the positives. With both Luiz and Wesley I saw two young bucks that were inconsistent even in games. Players have feelings too and some have young families.

I used to be a knob towards players until I spoke at length with Jordan Ayew. He told me how the speed of the game in England is incredible and how he struggled with it. Same with Gana , Veretout etc. With Ayew I said when you get a chance you rush it. I also said in England the keepers seem to have a weakness by their legs.

They also criticised the management for being strict with Jack and loose with 2 Birmingham based natives who had a penchant for expensive mercedes. 

Ayew said it was guys like Jack that helped them overcome the speed and he actually helped them settle.

Anyhow back to Watkins and I listened to Villa Analytics' podcast and he has me sold on Watkins.

 

 

[tomav84]

26 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

If we can’t get Watkins we need to have a look at ourselves. Ex manager, relationship is there, we’re arguably the biggest club in for him (I suspect), we’re loaded. 

It shouldn’t be that hard to get a deal over the line for him. Everything is in our favour regardless of his ability. 

i'm not one of these "why the **** haven't we signed anyone yet" characters, but i'm with you on this. surely this has to be one of the easiest deals for the reasons you mentioned. i'd be interested to know what the hold ups are. wanting to stay in london i'd wager would be the reason it falls through if it does

[John]

25 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

If we can’t get Watkins we need to have a look at ourselves. Ex manager, relationship is there, we’re arguably the biggest club in for him (I suspect), we’re loaded. 

It shouldn’t be that hard to get a deal over the line for him. Everything is in our favour regardless of his ability. 

I think that we get the deal done if we pay the price that Brentford want. If we don't he will go to another club that will, or he will move to another club for a lower price later, after we have moved on and signed a less costly player from further down our list of potential strikers. 

[MadridVilla]

10 hours ago, Wezbid said:

I bust my balls for £14k a year

[nick76]

14 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

i'm not one of these "why the **** haven't we signed anyone yet" characters, but i'm with you on this. surely this has to be one of the easiest deals for the reasons you mentioned. i'd be interested to know what the hold ups are. wanting to stay in london i'd wager would be the reason it falls through if it does

But we’d know that before we bid wouldn’t we.  There seems to be too much smoke around this deal for it to fall over because something as basic as something like the example of location.  

I’m starting to fall into category since Friday of why haven’t we signed anyone yet.  Deals aren’t easy for so many reasons but this is their job.  I know we’ll miss out on players, I know some will be at the end of the window but we are very far into the window, close to the start of the season and our attacking force is weak.  It’s not like we need just one player but at least 3 players in that area whether you believe we need 1 or 2 strikers and whether you think we need 1 or 2 wide forwards/wingers.  I think 3 players is key for us.  

To have brought in nobody by the 1st September I think it’s ok to question why that is the situation and to be slightly worried.

Edited September 1, 2020 by nick76

[DaveAV1]

I think the plan is to get Watkins, which I hope we do and another striker from under the radar. I can’t see us signing a high profile expensive striker unless Wesley’s recovery isn’t going well. The under the radar striker could be a gem, which I think is part of the remit of the new recruitment strategy. 

[Delphinho123]

11 minutes ago, John said:

I think that we get the deal done if we pay the price that Brentford want. If we don't he will go to another club that will, or he will move to another club for a lower price later, after we have moved on and signed a less costly player from further down our list of potential strikers. 

Problem is, I think that’s the reason we ended up with so many average players in the last window. 

We can’t mess around this time out. We need to have a shortlist of 10ish players and go all out to get what we can. 

[jonjon]

13 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

i'm not one of these "why the **** haven't we signed anyone yet" characters, but i'm with you on this. surely this has to be one of the easiest deals for the reasons you mentioned. i'd be interested to know what the hold ups are. wanting to stay in London i'd wager would be the reason it falls through if it does

Ignoring all the totally inaccurate press related prices supposedly wanted by us, No deal is easy, there is a lot to be worked on by both parties, I know its only press talk but it takes time to talk to each supposed interested club, length of contract, wages, location etc, etc, The last item you mention is location, to uproot your way of life, family, housing, is a lot to take in for a young lad, I think the only reason you might not get him is the attraction to the London area, but I might be wrong.

[peterw]

12 minutes ago, jonjon said:

Ignoring all the totally inaccurate press related prices supposedly wanted by us, No deal is easy, there is a lot to be worked on by both parties, I know its only press talk but it takes time to talk to each supposed interested club, length of contract, wages, location etc, etc, The last item you mention is location, to uproot your way of life, family, housing, is a lot to take in for a young lad, I think the only reason you might not get him is the attraction to the London area, but I might be wrong.

He's from Torquay. Going to Birmingham may not be going to London, but still to him it'd be like moving from Tuvalu to Germany rather than the US.

[Dodgyknees]

11 hours ago, Wezbid said:

I bust my balls for £14k a year, £40k is a pipe-dream, it'd certainly make the car search a lot easier!

That said, I have good friends, good family and therefore in a decent place mentally, even if not financially. The 2 aren't hand in hand with each other. 

I’ve got a good job and wage, but that’s not what makes me happy. I’m happy because I found it from within, I’m content, I don’t need anything but accept and enjoy things I do receive. In return I try and give back to those who are less fortunate because I was one of those. Aged 25 I wanted to kill myself, I understand those thoughts. I was lonely and my family and friends were not the people you want by your side in a battle. Now I’m mostly alone, living alone, but I’m happy because all I have is with me. I could have a bad time soon, I know that, I’m only human, but I also know that I have a good support network when that does happen.

Somebody moving house, job, to a new country, a new language, with his family, without the local shops and foods he or she is used to, well, that’s when mental health can take a hit. Imagine feeling alone, having nobody, yet having to learn the new language and make friends. Sorry, I’ll take my life with less money than face that constantly.

Edited September 1, 2020 by avfcDJ

[The Fun Factory]

UN Peace Treaties take less time now than a transfer saga.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

You are trying to create something out of nothing here. Speed had personal issues. If people have personal issues that's an entirely different debate. Nobody is joking with mental health. 

What was discussed here was whether it's legitimate to criticise and give stick to players when they are playing shit. And it obviously is. 

The reason they are paid to the extent they are, is not solely because of talent, but also because it's a HUGE entertainment industry. Part of that profession is that you are compensated for the impracticalities of being in the public eye financially. Just like heaps of other celebrities are in other professions. 

If you can't hack the idea of criticism and stick, and that becomes to much of a bother to you. Find another profession. 

Shit I'm not good with flying anymore, so I couldn't be a pilot even if a wanted to. Not everyone are ment to do all kinds of work. 

The fact that 15 people have liked a post thinking this is the equivalent story of "we should have sold Petrov etc" is absolutely hilarious, cause there you got 15 people who really can't connect the dots. Criticising a player's performance(s) does not equate to saying that player should be sold. Lots of players improve and need time, but it doesn't mean they are protected from stick when being shit. 

I'm surprised you don't seem to think there's connection between the pressures of being employed in a highly public area, rife for criticism/stick/abuse and mental health issues.  No amount of money overcomes that (which is what you seem to be alluding to).

You should also remember that most people don't become footballers to become famous.  There is no level of compensation for being in the public eye - the money is purely derived from what a club can offer, nothing to do with playing football in public.  I'm sure it's a pull for professional players, but they're bringing up families and (presumably) trying to progress as best they can.

 

There's also a **** world of difference between "criticising a players' performance" and abuse.  Football fans are just, largely, idiots.

[KenjiOgiwara]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

 Football fans are just, largely, idiots.

Safe to say we can agree on that. 

[Dodgyknees]

24 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Safe to say we can agree on that. 

I don’t want you to think I’m having a dig at you. You’re welcome to your opinion - as I am mine. I know you weren’t saying that, I just wanted you to know.

UTV

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

If we can’t get Watkins we need to have a look at ourselves. Ex manager, relationship is there, we’re arguably the biggest club in for him (I suspect), we’re loaded. 

It shouldn’t be that hard to get a deal over the line for him. Everything is in our favour regardless of his ability. 

I'm starting to wonder if clubs are chucking ridiculous wages at players which we refuse to match.

Especially the newly promoted and London clubs.

Again though, we really have no clue what is happening.

If we WERE indeed waiting for Lange to come in and get up to speed, without a base plan in the background I would be dissappointed.

Might also indicate the departing of Suso was not as "planned" as we thought.

OR again, as more likely, we know absolutely nothing.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

If we sign Watkins and he doesn't show the ability to succeed I won't be giving him Vitriol like one or two who resort to calling players names and shit. I'll also watch the games with a keen eye and look for the positives. With both Luiz and Wesley I saw two young bucks that were inconsistent even in games. Players have feelings too and some have young families.

I used to be a knob towards players until I spoke at length with Jordan Ayew. He told me how the speed of the game in England is incredible and how he struggled with it. Same with Gana , Veretout etc. With Ayew I said when you get a chance you rush it. I also said in England the keepers seem to have a weakness by their legs.

They also criticised the management for being strict with Jack and loose with 2 Birmingham based natives who had a penchant for expensive mercedes. 

Ayew said it was guys like Jack that helped them overcome the speed and he actually helped them settle.

Anyhow back to Watkins and I listened to Villa Analytics' podcast and he has me sold on Watkins.

 

 

Indeed.

You know what, in our clamour for signings, I think we are neglecting to realise that a large percentage of our newly signed players will now be more settled, and could come out much improved this season.

So while we can say "This is  a team which barely survived" we need to take both;

1. Players will now be more settled into their surroundings, used to the speed of the game, and tactics.

2. Deano appears to have learned how to tighten up the defence, and we just need the attack to compliment it.

A few signings and if the team click, we could possibly already be ready to go up a level or two, even with our current players.