Ollie Watkins

[Keyblade]

55 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

It's all just semantics as to what a dive actually is.

He was going down without contact. It's part of the game whether people like to admit it or not.

The annoying thing in this case is that he did actually get the contact and still got done for diving

I consider a dive to be manufacturing a situation that doesn't exist. Think that Leeds compilation. Don't think Ollie was trying to buy a pen by going down before the contact at all. Going down + no contact doesn't always = dive. Just like how there could be contact and it can still be a dive, a la Harry Kane at Villa Park.

The fact that there still was contact kind of shows he was right to try to avoid it and makes it even more annoying as you say.

[KevinRichardsonsMoustache]

This is an example of a referee putting his mark on a player: ‘you’re in the premier league now, son’. It’s basically a decorative red card: ref thinks we’ve nothing to play for - not like the so-called big clubs - and wants to make a show that he’s upholding standards.
 

Of course, the higher the profile of the player or club, the more difficult it is for a referee to wave his willy like this because it starts a whole public conversation about issues they wish to avoid (Salah: race; Kane: that England’s golden boy is actually a cheat). 
 

Frankly, refs are afraid of public spats with Pep or Klopp, but don’t give a sh*t about upholding the ‘rules of the game’ in the face of criticism by Dean Smith or Sean Dyche. This is why we (and teams around us) are always the guinea pigs.

As somebody said in the match thread, these so-called big clubs could leave to form a Super League and leave the rest of the clubs in a far better situation, as far as rules of the game go: referees are blinded by the glitz and power of these clubs.
 

Meanwhile, the impact on us is forgotten: Villa lose their top scorer for a match. And, perhaps more importantly watching Ollie’s response, you can actually see that he is chastising himself, internalising all of it, thinking he’s let his team down. Oh and of that wasn’t enough, the decision leads to conversations like this that further erode our trust in officials and the league in general. 
 

You’re not the problem, Ollie. Refs are part of a broader sociological problem in the game that, while posturing over fairness, are undoubtedly influenced by bigger forces at play. Amazingly, VAR has done nothing to root this out!

[lexicon]

IMO Ollie has been told to go to ground more often by the training staff, which tbf is something he probably does need to learn to do in the modern game - if players don't go down, refs don't generally do anything and he often finds himself in those situations. 

If you compare what he was like at the start of the season as opposed to now, he's definitely been trying to at least show the ref that his man has been fouling him - the problem is that it's a learning curve, as there's an art to taking contact naturally and going down to highlight the foul - he hasn't mastered it yet. 

I'd generally be a fan of players staying on their feet but there's also an element of gamesmanship to it. The absolute best player at this was Drogba. The guy would flop over from absolutely nothing in one challenge and then use his ridiculous strength the next - defenders had no idea how to approach him and that really played to Drogba's advantage. 

Compare to some of the stronger players we've had who have had fouls given against them for basically just standing their ground and refusing to be bullied by a defender - Carew and Davis come to mind - and you begin to see the games you have to play to get a fair shake from the ref.

[M_Afro]

The game does have some bizarre interpretations. A week ago the Everton defender, who was the last man, fouled Ollie about 3 times but got no sanction whatsoever for cheating because Ollie picked himself up and scored. In the eyes of football, justice was done because we scored. Why is the players act of blatant foul play not sanctioned? He committed the offence and should have been red carded despite Ollie still scoring.

Fast forward a week and Ollie is either fouled or tried to manufacture a foul, which is applauded in modern day football. Ollie gets no benefit from it. Man U do not suffer in any way but Ollie is carded. I don’t get it. It seems in scenario 1 there is no sanction because the players team do not benefit from a pre meditated act of foul play but although the same could be said of scenario 2, a sanction is awarded. Nonsense! Don’t even get me started on Ben Mee!

[a m ole]

2 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

Don’t even get me started on Ben Mee!

I mentioned this before. If Wesley had pulled out and made himself light, he doesn’t get injured for 18 months but risks a yellow card for ‘simulation’. Dangerous precedent.

Compare that to when Salah avoids yellow cards for when the earth suddenly drops a foot underneath him.

 

[Mister_a]

We need to get our players coached how to 'scream like a girl / howl like you have just been shot' when any minimal contact is detected. It's how all the big teams play now, sad as it seems.

[WooJung]

2 hours ago, a m ole said:

I mentioned this before. If Wesley had pulled out and made himself light, he doesn’t get injured for 18 months but risks a yellow card for ‘simulation’. Dangerous precedent.

Compare that to when Salah avoids yellow cards for when the earth suddenly drops a foot underneath him.

 

What a filthy cheat, I can't stand him. How he's allowed to do that over and over again is outrageous.

We'd be much better off if we had former players, after some training, at stockley park rather than these so called refs, they wouldn't fall (no pun intended) for this nonsense. 

[S-Platt]

16 minutes ago, WooJung said:

What a filthy cheat, I can't stand him. How he's allowed to do that over and over again is outrageous.

We'd be much better off if we had former players, after some training, at stockley park rather than these so called refs, they wouldn't fall (no pun intended) for this nonsense. 

I agree on former players to a degree but if its a defender like Keown he would have a different opinion to say a forward like Shearer of what's a foul/dive dangerous play and so on.

Let's just go back to no VAR it's was miles better than this crap.

[AntrimBlack]

Carew was the best I have seen at winning a legitimate penalty. He just stood in the box shielding the ball and then went down when he inevitably felt contact.

[foreveryoung]

7 hours ago, S-Platt said:

I agree on former players to a degree but if its a defender like Keown he would have a different opinion to say a forward like Shearer of what's a foul/dive dangerous play and so on.

Let's just go back to no VAR it's was miles better than this crap.

We saw hardly any VAR in the Man U game and they got away with murder. Ollie's foul, and the handball by golden boy Greenwood which was never going to be given against him.

[YLN]

On 11/05/2021 at 08:36, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said:

This is an example of a referee putting his mark on a player: ‘you’re in the premier league now, son’. It’s basically a decorative red card: ref thinks we’ve nothing to play for - not like the so-called big clubs - and wants to make a show that he’s upholding standards.
 

Of course, the higher the profile of the player or club, the more difficult it is for a referee to wave his willy like this because it starts a whole public conversation about issues they wish to avoid (Salah: race; Kane: that England’s golden boy is actually a cheat). 
 

Frankly, refs are afraid of public spats with Pep or Klopp, but don’t give a sh*t about upholding the ‘rules of the game’ in the face of criticism by Dean Smith or Sean Dyche. This is why we (and teams around us) are always the guinea pigs.

As somebody said in the match thread, these so-called big clubs could leave to form a Super League and leave the rest of the clubs in a far better situation, as far as rules of the game go: referees are blinded by the glitz and power of these clubs.
 

Meanwhile, the impact on us is forgotten: Villa lose their top scorer for a match. And, perhaps more importantly watching Ollie’s response, you can actually see that he is chastising himself, internalising all of it, thinking he’s let his team down. Oh and of that wasn’t enough, the decision leads to conversations like this that further erode our trust in officials and the league in general. 
 

You’re not the problem, Ollie. Refs are part of a broader sociological problem in the game that, while posturing over fairness, are undoubtedly influenced by bigger forces at play. Amazingly, VAR has done nothing to root this out!

Great post. I had a thought last night on this very topic when I was going to sleep.

Imagine if the Sheff Utd goal last season, where Hawk Eye wasn't turned on etc, was scored by Man City. AS IF(!) VAR wouldn't have gotten involved and told the ref that there was a clear and obvious error and that there should be a goal given for Man City. 

[Dave-R]

On 11/05/2021 at 08:36, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said:

This is an example of a referee putting his mark on a player: ‘you’re in the premier league now, son’. It’s basically a decorative red card: ref thinks we’ve nothing to play for - not like the so-called big clubs - and wants to make a show that he’s upholding standards.
 

Of course, the higher the profile of the player or club, the more difficult it is for a referee to wave his willy like this because it starts a whole public conversation about issues they wish to avoid (Salah: race; Kane: that England’s golden boy is actually a cheat). 
 

Frankly, refs are afraid of public spats with Pep or Klopp, but don’t give a sh*t about upholding the ‘rules of the game’ in the face of criticism by Dean Smith or Sean Dyche. This is why we (and teams around us) are always the guinea pigs.

As somebody said in the match thread, these so-called big clubs could leave to form a Super League and leave the rest of the clubs in a far better situation, as far as rules of the game go: referees are blinded by the glitz and power of these clubs.
 

Meanwhile, the impact on us is forgotten: Villa lose their top scorer for a match. And, perhaps more importantly watching Ollie’s response, you can actually see that he is chastising himself, internalising all of it, thinking he’s let his team down. Oh and of that wasn’t enough, the decision leads to conversations like this that further erode our trust in officials and the league in general. 
 

You’re not the problem, Ollie. Refs are part of a broader sociological problem in the game that, while posturing over fairness, are undoubtedly influenced by bigger forces at play. Amazingly, VAR has done nothing to root this out!

Enjoyed the read of this post, sums it all up wonderfully.

[Zatman]

our best player today, can feel let down by some of his team mates

[rodders0223]

I thought he was sensational. Up against two monsters held his own more than held his own. Touch was on point and his timing of the runs into channels was perfect too.

[HanoiVillan]

Someone in the reaction thread claiming he was awful! You have to wonder what people are watching sometimes.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Turned his usual harrying and running up , a notch further, which is already difficult.

Was hungry to make a mark, and make up for lost time. Severely let down by his team mates again.

[Tom13]

I love Ollie, sometimes he just does not see an obvious pass though. It's frustrating. Played well today overall.

[GingerCollins29]

Thought he could have been more selfish today. Always looking to tee up others rather than shoot

[Sulberto21]

The ref is a bellend. Ollie was constantly fouled , having his shirt pulled In fact Cahill climbed all over him immediately before their second goal. Deserved a goal or two on performance alone. 

He's been a huge part of why we've scored 50 goals this season. Is that the first time we've scored 50 in the premier League for a while?

[Villa94]

he must be starting to get pissed off with all these aimless balls up to him, frustrating thing is give him service and he will score