AndyClarke Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 It's disappointing to hear that DJ doesn't look like he has progressed enough to make the step up. He looked at one point last season as though he was almost ahead of Gary Gardner in terms of importance to the reserve team. I gather that he didn't pull up any trees with his loan spell at Yeovil. His chance hasn't gone but unfortunately he looks to be falling short of top level standard. He'll have a good career at league one level I think, but he is not as dynamic as Gardner. What DJ does he generally does well, terrific engine and an eye for goal but I see him as being limited but influential if that makes sense. By no means is he a clogger but I doubt he is going to get many chances here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodigan Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 can only speak from what i've seen of the lads over here in hk over the past six or seven years, but those that have stood out have generally gone on to first team standard with us or elsewhere - cahill, gabby, bannan, clarke, herd, lichaj, albrighton, weimann... i know shaun maloney came out here too, but can't remember if it was with us or celtic... add to that players who still could - GG, Fonz, DJ and now young Jack Grealish, I think we can safely say that our academy is among the best around... as far as jack pushing for the first team, i suspect he is going to have it tougher than the young lads who have broken through in the last three or four years, as we now appear to have a much deeper squad with players only a couple of years older, but with 50 odd games under their belts already warming the benches and pushing for starts.... albrighton, weimann and bannan have all starred here in much the same way as jack did over the weekend - and i mean they really looked head and shoulders above any of the other talent out here at the time... their progression since then has varied, although to be fair, all have had first team runs when fit... i guess it shows that they deserve their chance, and whether they take it is up to them... one thing i would say about this years tournament is that the standard this year seemed far lower than previous years. i understand the tournament lost its government funding this year, which resulted in far fewer international teams... in particular, no ajax, no celtic, no australian a-league team, no japanese j-league team, and at least one or two less premier league teams than last year.... as such you would expect a lad like jack to shine and he really did... in fact, he was such class, people will remember his eight goals, which bearing in mind that he is not an out and out striker means that i think we did not actually see how good he could be up against the very best... what i can say is that he is magic with the ball at his feet, and he was making the opposition defenders look silly on occasions.... as expected, the result was often him being booted up in the air, which he took in his stride... he looks to be a tough little bugger, which bodes well for him in the future... i really hope he gets his chance with the seniors along with a bunch of the other academy lads.... donacien was great - big, strong, brave and fast.... bateman, josh webb, calder - all looked skilful and quick.... very promising for the future... I also hope that these lads are treated fairly and that the club explains to them the strategy for the development of their careers - when they need to be patient and when they will be given a chance... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevangrealish Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Some great posts made so far. Not just on jack's behalf but i agree with a lot of them on the base of other players aswell. I agree that it will be extremely hard for Jack to get his chance because in the past we've had a lot of experience when blooding youngsters. Now it would be very risky for Lambert to bring jack on against premier league sides and could get slated for it. Also I don't know about any of you, but i would have put Carruthers + Burke in front of Dawkins this season. Even if Dawkins only got like two substitute appearances. Carruthers looked very lively against Man Utd when he came on, but it seems that Lambert has put Burkey in front of him in the pecking order. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 I think PL played it right last season, bringing in Grealish and Burke during us fighting for our lives, it would not have been a good move, It's best to bring kids through when your on a winning run, less pressure and to express themselves, rather than fighting or scrapping. So I can understand why he turned to say Dawkins last season. If Grealish is good enough he will make it, he seems to be a level headed kid, I think the reason Carruthers hasn't broken through is to do with attitude right at the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alakagom Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) Never seen DJ play but he looks another type of Albrighton. Quick, swift, but lightweight and not cut for PL game. Too me there's too many types of players coming from academy with similar characteristics like that. However saying that likes Carruthers or Grealish look to have fantastic potential! Edited May 29, 2013 by Alakagom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 I havent seen him in person but DJ appears to be alot bigger and stronger than our other youth stars. I thought out of anyone he would make it. He is only 20 though so we cannot right him off just yet.. unless he gets released. To me if he fails it will be his attitude. He has the skills and attributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted May 29, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted May 29, 2013 Some great posts made so far. Not just on jack's behalf but i agree with a lot of them on the base of other players aswell. I agree that it will be extremely hard for Jack to get his chance because in the past we've had a lot of experience when blooding youngsters. Now it would be very risky for Lambert to bring jack on against premier league sides and could get slated for it. Also I don't know about any of you, but i would have put Carruthers + Burke in front of Dawkins this season. Even if Dawkins only got like two substitute appearances. Carruthers looked very lively against Man Utd when he came on, but it seems that Lambert has put Burkey in front of him in the pecking order. yeah, you'd think carruthers time is now, just captianed the nextgen team to victory and had been on the fringes before that. looks a player to me. preseason will be important for him i think, if it sees ireland, zog and bannan leaving. then i suppose that would leave carruthers, GG, sylla, KEA, delph and westwood all competing for the midfield places. assuming we stick to the current 3 in midfield. i'd like to see both GG and carruthers used as the more advanced of the 3 to be honest. would be a shame to play either of them out of position by playing them wide. that said, with 6 into 3 spots, with some rotation and the cups you'd expect all of them to get a good run of games at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 On Carruthers, lightweight but very good on the ball, he plays with real confidence as he showed in the Next Gen finals. In that tournament he was a class above a lot of the players, largely through experience to go with the incredible talent that was on show in all of the teams. Don't think he'll make it at Aston Villa, neither convinced he is good enough at what he does or has the right attitude for the job. There are other boys ready to step ahead of him, same goes for Daniel Johnson who bosses games at his age group but has never really looked like making the step up to the first team. Grealish in particular is in pole position to figure next season, particularly if we can have a reasonable start. He'll be 18 and has served his time as one of the top players at u18 level before progressing seamlessly to being very good at u21 level, then being top man in Hong Kong. This is a well trodden path for players moving into the first team squad at Villa Park. It was a general comment about players overtaking him, I don't believe Carruthers will play centrally for the first team, if he does it would be in an advanced position and I think Grealish will get the chance first. Therefore he'd play wide and I'd hope Grealish or Graham would get the chance to play their before Carruthers does, so struggling to see him get a chance. Might all be immaterial anyway because his contract must be up unless he has signed a new one which hasn't been made public (or I've missed) or the club have taken up an extension option. Thanks Trent. Interesting points raised. I've seen him play quite a bit and I would say the following. I think he has got a lot stronger in the last year and I think to call him lightweight is a bit tough. As Kevan said earlier he is now much more of CM than CAM and is surprisingly tough in the tackle. Both he and Lambert will be thinking he has to displace Delph or Sylla to get in the team. The problem he has there is consistency he tends to do some things incredibly well but also gives the ball away a lot, criminal for a top level CM. So if I was forced to make a decision right now I might tend to agree that he wont make it centrally. And the point you make about other being ahead of him in more attacking roles must surely be true. I hope they can convince him to stay and give him another year to see if he can get more accuracy and consistency in his play. Still has potential to make it in my opinion just not right now. On DJ without being too simplistic I would say the reverse is true. He and Carruthers have almost swapped roles in the last year and he is now the CAM making runs beyond the striker. His pace being the key factor here. In my opinion he has the required consistency right now but the question is whether he is "special" enough to be a potent weapon in advanced areas in the PL. Again that is probably not the case at the moment but I hope we do keep him too because I think both could be very good in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Derrick Williams looks like he's off too, wants first team football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Yep. TBF I dont think he is quite good enough. Needs to drop down and work his way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyClarke Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) On Carruthers, lightweight but very good on the ball, he plays with real confidence as he showed in the Next Gen finals. In that tournament he was a class above a lot of the players, largely through experience to go with the incredible talent that was on show in all of the teams. Don't think he'll make it at Aston Villa, neither convinced he is good enough at what he does or has the right attitude for the job. There are other boys ready to step ahead of him, same goes for Daniel Johnson who bosses games at his age group but has never really looked like making the step up to the first team. Grealish in particular is in pole position to figure next season, particularly if we can have a reasonable start. He'll be 18 and has served his time as one of the top players at u18 level before progressing seamlessly to being very good at u21 level, then being top man in Hong Kong. This is a well trodden path for players moving into the first team squad at Villa Park. It was a general comment about players overtaking him, I don't believe Carruthers will play centrally for the first team, if he does it would be in an advanced position and I think Grealish will get the chance first. Therefore he'd play wide and I'd hope Grealish or Graham would get the chance to play their before Carruthers does, so struggling to see him get a chance. Might all be immaterial anyway because his contract must be up unless he has signed a new one which hasn't been made public (or I've missed) or the club have taken up an extension option. Thanks Trent. Interesting points raised. I've seen him play quite a bit and I would say the following. I think he has got a lot stronger in the last year and I think to call him lightweight is a bit tough. As Kevan said earlier he is now much more of CM than CAM and is surprisingly tough in the tackle. Both he and Lambert will be thinking he has to displace Delph or Sylla to get in the team. The problem he has there is consistency he tends to do some things incredibly well but also gives the ball away a lot, criminal for a top level CM. So if I was forced to make a decision right now I might tend to agree that he wont make it centrally. And the point you make about other being ahead of him in more attacking roles must surely be true. I hope they can convince him to stay and give him another year to see if he can get more accuracy and consistency in his play. Still has potential to make it in my opinion just not right now. On DJ without being too simplistic I would say the reverse is true. He and Carruthers have almost swapped roles in the last year and he is now the CAM making runs beyond the striker. His pace being the key factor here. In my opinion he has the required consistency right now but the question is whether he is "special" enough to be a potent weapon in advanced areas in the PL. Again that is probably not the case at the moment but I hope we do keep him too because I think both could be very good in the future. Regarding Carruthers, I don't doubt he is tenacious and is more willing to do a bit of dirty work than he was as a boy, by lightweight I'm not suggesting that he'll blow over in the wind or is scared to go near an opposition player, it was merely a comment on his physique in the context of the Premier League. There have been plenty of smaller players who have bossed the middle of the park in the Premier League over the years but I'm not convinced that Carruthers is necessarily that type of player, even after he is reinvention as a genuine centre mid rather than a luxury player. Edited May 29, 2013 by AndyClarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 I think we could do better to make use of loan spells, personally. We're getting to the point where we have talented youngsters, but they're not ready to break into the first team, and not many players do at Premier League clubs at the age of 18-20. Lowton for example, probably wouldn't been offered a pro contract if he had come through our academy, but because he played so many games for Sheff United at a young age, he developed steadily into a player capable of playing in the Premier League. Carruthers has lots of experience at youth level and reserve levels but he hasn't proved himself at competitive, league football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted May 29, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted May 29, 2013 I want them all to make it! Yes I think loans are key. There are guys younger than this group of players who have dozens of first team games at lower level and are better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyClarke Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Pretty sure Lowton would have got a pro deal to be fair, your point about his progress may well be correct though. We have a good academy, with some very good people who know exactly what they are doing in charge, if players need a loan spell they will get one. It isn't all about loaning players out anyway, it isn't necessarily the best way for a young player to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Honestly think we should hook up with a team abroad for them to ply there trade, Lowton possibly wouldn't have made it if he remained Sheff Utd, however he was on loan in Hungary which he himself said improved him in terms of technique leaps and bounds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevangrealish Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Pretty sure Lowton would have got a pro deal to be fair, your point about his progress may well be correct though. We have a good academy, with some very good people who know exactly what they are doing in charge, if players need a loan spell they will get one. It isn't all about loaning players out anyway, it isn't necessarily the best way for a young player to develop. This. We haven't necessarily had the most promising full backs come through the academy in recent year's and I spoke to a few Sheffield United fans in Magaluff and they said he was quite promising. Onto the loans, We've seen what happened with Courney Cameron when he went out on loan, was playing for the 21's, then went out on loan, didn't have the best time there but wasn't bad either. And now he's been released despite the fact we bought him when he was young. I also didn't even hear DJ's name pop up at yeovil... (Not that i was paying much attention to that league tbf). In defence to that i didn't think GG was that bad considering what he was working with at cov... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 29, 2013 Moderator Share Posted May 29, 2013 On Carruthers, the one thing I'd say he does have going for him is aggression - he can be a nasty little bugger and players who've got that tend to make it somewhere. I'm really looking forward to drawing some absolute shite in the cups next season - that could be enough for that little breakthrough one or two of these players need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommybread Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 What youth players are most likely to break into the first team next season? What type of player is Grealish as well, is he more a winger or better centrally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 2, 2013 Moderator Share Posted June 2, 2013 Pretty sure Lowton would have got a pro deal to be fair, your point about his progress may well be correct though. We have a good academy, with some very good people who know exactly what they are doing in charge, if players need a loan spell they will get one. It isn't all about loaning players out anyway, it isn't necessarily the best way for a young player to develop. Absolutely on the money for me this, Lowton would have got a pro deal here no question in my mind but agree with the point on progression. The academy and those running it is one of the only things, in fact perhaps the only thing that has been right throughout Lerner's time at the club and that is in no small part down to the fact that nobody has interfered with it. Not O'Neill, Lerner, Houllier or McLeish altered it and Lambert won't either. One of my biggest concerns when Houllier was appointed was the impact he would have on this element of the club after he dismantled the Liverpool youth set up and set it back 15 years. I was delighted when he left the club before he had a chance to **** with ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 May or may not be football related but Derrick Williams isnt very happy on twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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