Johan Lange

[villalad21]

8 minutes ago, dukes said:

How on earth anyone can judge Lange's transfer performance before a ball has been kicked is beyond me.

How anyone can judge his performance before the players have even been announced is just so Villa !

We better perform better this season then.

Because according to many on here Suso was the cause of all our problems last season.

[Ginko]

I can understand people's concerns, but I'm always of the opinion that we should give all the players we sign a chance before writing them off.

He hasn't even signed yet, let alone kicked a football wearing a Villa shirt, and who knows what's been going on at Lyon behind the scenes? Sometimes a player just doesn't work out somewhere for multiple reasons, but at another club, in a different country and working under a new manager and coaches, they could become a different player. Assuming those stats posted above are correct, they're not even that bad.

If we end up signing him we should give the lad a chance regardless. That's not me ignoring the opinions of Lyon fans or deluding myself because there's a good chance he'll be a Villa player by the end of this week if reports are to be believed, it's just me being optimistic and open-minded. He's played for some great clubs before and he's now coming to a club that escaped relegation from the Premier League by the skin of their teeth last season.

We need to be realistic as to the sort of players we can attract right now. It's going to take a few seasons establishing ourselves as Premier League perennials before we can attract the kinds of players all the fans can agree on. 

[villalad21]

3 minutes ago, Ginko said:

I can understand people's concerns, but I'm always of the opinion that we should give all the players we sign a chance before writing them off.

He hasn't even signed yet, let alone kicked a football wearing a Villa shirt, and who knows what's been going on at Lyon behind the scenes? Sometimes a player just doesn't work out somewhere for multiple reasons, but at another club, in a different country and working under a new manager and coaches, they could become a different player. Assuming those stats posted above are correct, they're not even that bad.

If we end up signing him we should give the lad a chance regardless. That's not me ignoring the opinions of Lyon fans or deluding myself because there's a good chance he'll be a Villa player by the end of this week if reports are to be believed, it's just me being optimistic and open-minded. He's played for some great clubs before and he's now coming to a club that escaped relegation from the Premier League by the skin of their teeth last season.

We need to be realistic as to the sort of players we can attract right now. It's going to take a few seasons establishing ourselves as Premier League perennials before we can attract the kinds of players all the fans can agree on. 

Well he haven't really worked out anywhere.

[dukes]

1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

We better perform better this season then.

Because according to many on here Suso was the cause of all our problems last season.

Last summer we signed :-

Mings, El Ghazi, Hause all of who were tried and tested in the championship for us, and all of who most were happy to sign.

Heaton, Target who most agreed added much needed quality

Wesley, Luiz, Engels, Konsa, Nakamba, Trezeguet who in my opinion all contributed enough to consider them decent. Luiz after Lockdown, was exceptional.

and Jota who Smith knew and at £2M plus Gardner was worth a punt, and i doubt Suso had much to do with.

The work had to be done, players needed to be added and the first season in the Premier League is always tough for any player from abroad, as is the step up from Championship to Premier League. 

Personally i think his hit rate last summer was pretty good, if we were to sell those players now, i suspect we'd make a decent profit (with the possible exception of Wesley and Jota).

The problem was that in January Samatta for £8M, Baston for free and Drinkwater on Loan, contributed next to nothing. Reina did very well, and i suspect Suso was a big part of the reason he came here. £8M wasn't much of an outlay, and i suspect that had more to do with FFP than anything else. With such a low spend though it's hard to really knock Suso, and i still think Samatta could come good if theres less pressure on him.

I think Suso's downfall must have been his relationship with Purslow more than the players that were bought in, i have no idea if Lange will last, or indeed if Lange can attract the higher calibre of player that we will need going forward if we are able to establish ourselves, but i do trust the board and i do expect they'll make the tough decisions (including dispensing of Lange if needs be) that will be needed if we're to achieve their dream of competing European football

 

 

 

 

[villalad21]

11 minutes ago, dukes said:

Last summer we signed :-

Mings, El Ghazi, Hause all of who were tried and tested in the championship for us, and all of who most were happy to sign.

Heaton, Target who most agreed added much needed quality

Wesley, Luiz, Engels, Konsa, Nakamba, Trezeguet who in my opinion all contributed enough to consider them decent. Luiz after Lockdown, was exceptional.

and Jota who Smith knew and at £2M plus Gardner was worth a punt, and i doubt Suso had much to do with.

The work had to be done, players needed to be added and the first season in the Premier League is always tough for any player from abroad, as is the step up from Championship to Premier League. 

Personally i think his hit rate last summer was pretty good, if we were to sell those players now, i suspect we'd make a decent profit (with the possible exception of Wesley and Jota).

The problem was that in January Samatta for £8M, Baston for free and Drinkwater on Loan, contributed next to nothing. Reina did very well, and i suspect Suso was a big part of the reason he came here. £8M wasn't much of an outlay, and i suspect that had more to do with FFP than anything else. With such a low spend though it's hard to really knock Suso, and i still think Samatta could come good if theres less pressure on him.

I think Suso's downfall must have been his relationship with Purslow more than the players that were bought in, i have no idea if Lange will last, or indeed if Lange can attract the higher calibre of player that we will need going forward if we are able to establish ourselves, but i do trust the board and i do expect they'll make the tough decisions (including dispensing of Lange if needs be) that will be needed if we're to achieve their dream of competing European football

 

 

 

 

Another one to the list that has fallen out with Purslow.

Looks like to me Purslow doesn't like people who question him.

Smith and Lange are just happy to be here and stay in their dream job.

Seems like he found another yes man.

Said it before. Christian Purlow may be a bigger problem than we realize.

[Ginko]

11 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Another one to the list that has fallen out with Purslow.

Looks like to me Purslow doesn't like people who question him.

Smith and Lange are just happy to be here and stay in their dream job.

Seems like he found another yes man.

Said it before. Christian Purlow may be a bigger problem than we realize.

The first line of this post is guesswork and we'll never know, just like we'll never know if Suso was the real issue.

The second, third and fourth are pure speculation based on absolutely nothing other than your own biased opinions and you don't even have a shred of proof for any of it.

As for the last line, since Purslow has been in charge we've been promoted to the Premier League a year ahead of schedule and then survived that first year. We also appear to be spending big for the second season in a row so we can move onto the next stage. If he starts doing a bad job in line with NSWE's projections then he'll be out of a job, don't you worry.

From your posts, it seems like you basically want us to be Wolves. Our situation is different for numerous reasons and we're going to have to improve in stages. I'd suggest you come to terms with the fact that success isn't going to come overnight, otherwise you're going to be very unhappy over the coming seasons.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Ginko

[Rolta]

[dukes]

22 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Another one to the list that has fallen out with Purslow.

Looks like to me Purslow doesn't like people who question him.

Smith and Lange are just happy to be here and stay in their dream job.

Seems like he found another yes man.

Said it before. Christian Purlow may be a bigger problem than we realize.

I certainly haven't said Purslow is a problem. Football Clubs need driven, ambitious people at every level. Strong characters bang heads occasionally. Its just the way of the world.

[villalad21]

1 minute ago, dukes said:

I certainly haven't said Purslow is a problem. Football Clubs need driven, ambitious people at every level. Strong characters bang heads occasionally. Its just the way of the world.

And i get a feeling Purslow prefers to work under a yes man. Hence the reason he fell out with Benitez and Suso.

If you look at it. If Smith and Lange were gone they would never find a better job.

Suso had worked at clubs like Athletico Madrid and Valencia. Who do you think are more likely to question and be critical towards Purslow?

[thabucks]

13 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Pretty clear he doesn't have much to contribute with if Traore is what he suggests for securing our place in the PL.

I fully understand the need of pace and athleticism. I even argued that point weeks ago, but they also need to be good footballers. Otherwise lets just sign Linford Christie. 

Everyone that has seen him play will agree he's not the quality we need. Lyon fans will tell you. French football viewers on here will tell you. Youtube will normally be able to drum up a good video, but even that fails here. 

Often in life the information you need is right in front of you, but it's human nature to avoid the bad stuff and substitute it for alternative scenarios that's more comfortable to our preferences. Unfortunately he doesn't just magically become better at football. 

 

You do realise we have a new head of recruitment and Lange is sporting director ? 

[KenjiOgiwara]

2 minutes ago, thabucks said:

You do realise we have a new head of recruitment and Lange is sporting director ? 

And who do you think is his boss? In most countries the sporting director is directly in charge over the scouting network. 

[Keyblade]

4 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Don't agree with that. He was given a job by his club, his performances then showed whether he was up for the task. His stats and performances then showed he's not. That's not anecdotal at all. 

The anecdotal evidence is the testimony of Lyon fans that you are using to inform your opinion. 

[dukes]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

And i get a feeling Purslow prefers to work under a yes man. Hence the reason he fell out with Benitez and Suso.

If you look at it. If Smith and Lange were gone they would never find a better job.

Suso had worked at clubs like Athletico Madrid and Valencia. Who do you think are more likely to question and be critical towards Purslow?

I'm not sure there's any evidence to suggest that Purslow doesn't like to be questioned. There's plenty of reasons why people don't get on, and we are not party to the internal mechanics at Villa.

My guess is Suso has a history of bringing in players that are older and more established, and Lange is better at bringing in players for development...but it's just a guess. Suso's contract was up, perhaps the board a sa collective felt he'd done what he could and a different direction was needed. Whats wrong with that ? It doesn't need to be that there is a vendetta against soemone.

While nobody is above reproach, i struggle to see what Purslow and the owners have done wrong since they arrived ? The club has been and remains on an entirely upward trajectory.

[bannedfromHandV]

Anyone else feel like a certain group of posters might share the same IP address? 

 

You come on looking for an update, a bit of news or gossip or some interesting conversation and what do you get - the same people saying the same crap over and over again with people rising to the bait.

 

Mods, any chance we can look into this at all? I’m certain there’s something untoward going on.

[bobzy]

I love the section of our fans who are constantly critical of absolutely everything the club does.

The guy who has been in a job for barely a month is awful and a player we haven't even signed is garbage.  All before we've played a league game!

Phenomenal work chaps, a real credit to the club

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, villalad21 said:

We better perform better this season then.

Because according to many on here Suso was the cause of all our problems last season.

This I can actually agree with.

[villalad21]

4 minutes ago, dukes said:

I'm not sure there's any evidence to suggest that Purslow doesn't like to be questioned. There's plenty of reasons why people don't get on, and we are not party to the internal mechanics at Villa.

My guess is Suso has a history of bringing in players that are older and more established, and Lange is better at bringing in players for development...but it's just a guess. Suso's contract was up, perhaps the board a sa collective felt he'd done what he could and a different direction was needed. Whats wrong with that ? It doesn't need to be that there is a vendetta against soemone.

While nobody is above reproach, i struggle to see what Purslow and the owners have done wrong since they arrived ? The club has been and remains on an entirely upward trajectory.

Owners have done nothing wrong.

My concerns lies with Purslow. If we want to become a top club we need to hire the best in class.

Dean Smith and Johan Lange are far from elite appointments. I hope i'm wrong and we go onto becoming a top 8 club with this staff. But i can't see it happening.

Everton getting in Ancelotti and signing world class players. Leeds with their super aggressive style of play just behind our heels. Nevertheless. It will be an interesting season to follow.

[dukes]

7 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Owners have done nothing wrong.

My concerns lies with Purslow. If we want to become a top club we need to hire the best in class.

Dean Smith and Johan Lange are far from elite appointments. I hope i'm wrong and we go onto becoming a top 8 club with this staff. But i can't see it happening.

Everton getting in Ancelotti and signing world class players. Leeds with their super aggressive style of play just behind our heels. Nevertheless. It will be an interesting season to follow.

Smith and Lange.....we don't know what they are capable of until we give them a chance.

Smith might not have the big name that you're looking for, but what more could you have asked from him ? He got us up, and kept us up. He held on to Grealish. I would agree that if Smith were Brentford manager now, and Villa were where we are now , but with a need for a new manager then Smith would be highly unlikely to be appointed, but surely that's testament to the good job he has actually done since he came here ?

For the record, before lockdown i wanted Smith out, and  a bigger name in, but he steadied the ship, and kept us up so surely he has earnt the chance to develop further as a manager here for now at least ? I would expect that following two summers and £200M being spent if we are in the relegation zone at Christmas then Smith will be gone. Whether at this stage of our development we could attract a manager of similar ilk to Ancelotti is a different thing all together.

Before Ancelotti, we were probably 2 or 3 seasons of careful investment behind Everton, you can't compare the two teams, as for Leeds i have no idea how they were able to convince Bielsa to go there, and without him their squad is not at our level.

[KenjiOgiwara]

32 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

The anecdotal evidence is the testimony of Lyon fans that you are using to inform your opinion. 

It's not though. His stats tell the story. The opinions of their fans just adds to it. Then it's the case that you can just watch him play on the internet. So it's a wide arrange of inputs to come to a conclusion. 

[Keyblade]

4 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

It's not though. His stats tell the story. The opinions of their fans just adds to it. Then it's the case that you can just watch him play on the internet. So it's a wide arrange of inputs to come to a conclusion. 

Stats can be interpreted any way you want really, and I'd imagine the professionals employed by the club to collect and analyze the stats are probably better at it than us. Also, edited YouTube clips are hardly any meaningful source of information beyond getting a cursory feel of what a player might be like. If you've watched him play in live matches then fair play, but otherwise as far as evidence goes, that's all a bit weak tbh.