cyrusr Posted October 8, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 8, 2020 46 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: I got through all of it and it literally turns into him trying to flog you something.. I.JUST.DONT.UNDERSTAND.HOW.NORMAL.PEOPLE.CAN.LOOK.AT.HIM.AND.THINK."HE.CAN.RUN.A.COUNTRY.WELL". Holy SHIEEEEEET 45 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Incidentally the video could have been 41 seconds long and he'd have had plenty of time to say everything he said in the video. He's the master of speaking without actually saying anything. Trying to flog something and literally telling people IT IS A CURE (when it very much is not) is **** frightening I've now managed to get through it all. Utter utter rubbish. I want my 4minutes 53 seconds back @lapal_fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 8, 2020 Quote Bill Stepien, Trump’s 2020 campaign manager said in a statement that “President Trump won the first debate despite a terrible and biased moderator in Chris Wallace, and everybody knows it. “For the swamp creatures at the Presidential Debate Commission to now rush to Joe Biden’s defense by unilaterally canceling an in-person debate is pathetic. That’s not what debates are about or how they’re done,” Stepien, who also tested positive for COVID-19 earlier this week, said. “We’ll pass on this sad excuse to bail out Joe Biden and do a rally instead.” The Al Jazz Era Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 A rally only plays to his base and not to undecideds. I can't work this one out from a strategic PoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 8, 2020 Just now, StefanAVFC said: A rally only plays to his base and not to undecideds. I can't work this one out from a strategic PoV Its a ploy to infect retards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: A rally only plays to his base and not to undecideds. I can't work this one out from a strategic PoV People in Trumps base have friends. Some of them may be undecided. More importantly, Trump needs his base to come out and vote in large numbers to have any chance, so worrying about the legendary lessor spotted "undecided" voter is at lower priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, villakram said: People in Trumps base have friends. Some of them may be undecided. More importantly, Trump needs his base to come out and vote in large numbers to have any chance, so worrying about the legendary lessor spotted "undecided" voter is at lower priority. Who will you be voting for out of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: Who will you be voting for out of interest? I am not American, nor a citizen... nay but a poor immigrant or alien as some would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted October 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 8, 2020 2 hours ago, bickster said: Its a ploy to infect retards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 4 hours ago, villakram said: People in Trumps base have friends. Some of them may be undecided. More importantly, Trump needs his base to come out and vote in large numbers to have any chance, so worrying about the legendary lessor spotted "undecided" voter is at lower priority. He's been holding rallies all year, all 4 years in fact. The idea that one more is going to make some kind of meaningful difference seems far-fetched to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted October 8, 2020 I also think the undecideds in America are currently undecided between Biden / Not voting far more than they may vote for Trump 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Hmm, touch of knife-sharpening happening here IMO: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: He's been holding rallies all year, all 4 years in fact. The idea that one more is going to make some kind of meaningful difference seems far-fetched to me. It's not that he is going to do more, it's who will he target in the next 4 weeks. This is a turnout election and he needs his base energized, not just of the opinion they like and will vote for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 People who are on tape raping children really do say the funniest things ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Trump's idea that 'everyone' should get 'life-saving' medicine like Regeneron 'for free' seems to me like a fairly radical departure from normal Republican thinking about healthcare costs. Well, it would be if he meant it, which we all know he doesn't, but it's amusing that socialised medicine has become a virtue now his election campaign is on fire. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Trump's idea that 'everyone' should get 'life-saving' medicine like Regeneron 'for free' seems to me like a fairly radical departure from normal Republican thinking about healthcare costs. Well, it would be if he meant it, which we all know he doesn't, but it's amusing that socialised medicine has become a virtue now his election campaign is on fire. "Populist" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 1 hour ago, villakram said: "Populist" I've been meaning to leave this post until after the election, but since you mention it anyway . . . One episode I've been thinking a lot about recently is when some air conditioning unit company in Indiana announced they were going to outsource loads of jobs to Mexico during the last campaign, and then Trump was immediately on Twitter haranguing them about this, and then he and Mike Pence had negotiations (I think?) with the company, and they ended up keeping some of the jobs, and it was all a big deal? I just keep thinking about it because it really was an alternative approach he could have taken. It would still have been shit, but I can imagine that badgering unpopular bosses on Twitter to keep jobs in the country and give people pay rises or whatever, when combined with bashing immigrants, would have been a pretty potent political force. But instead he just adopted Mitch McConnell's unpopular policies wholesale, and all he's done is the unpopular stuff of giving rich people tax cuts and appointing judges who will allow big companies to pollute rivers and stuff. Maybe he was always going to do that, but if you get elected essentially through a fluke of having fewer voters but who are better distributed geographically, you might think it would be a good idea to expand your support base, but he hasn't done that at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancvillan Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 25 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I've been meaning to leave this post until after the election, but since you mention it anyway . . . One episode I've been thinking a lot about recently is when some air conditioning unit company in Indiana announced they were going to outsource loads of jobs to Mexico during the last campaign, and then Trump was immediately on Twitter haranguing them about this, and then he and Mike Pence had negotiations (I think?) with the company, and they ended up keeping some of the jobs, and it was all a big deal? I just keep thinking about it because it really was an alternative approach he could have taken. It would still have been shit, but I can imagine that badgering unpopular bosses on Twitter to keep jobs in the country and give people pay rises or whatever, when combined with bashing immigrants, would have been a pretty potent political force. But instead he just adopted Mitch McConnell's unpopular policies wholesale, and all he's done is the unpopular stuff of giving rich people tax cuts and appointing judges who will allow big companies to pollute rivers and stuff. Maybe he was always going to do that, but if you get elected essentially through a fluke of having fewer voters but who are better distributed geographically, you might think it would be a good idea to expand your support base, but he hasn't done that at all. This is classic Trump mythology - he says a thing with an element of truth and it gets remembered as fact. Carrier were going to move approx 2100 jobs to Mexico. Trump and Pence stepped in and "saved" around 800 of those jobs in return for approx $7 million in government subsidies. Carrier also agreed to invest around $15m in the facility - but a lot of that is being invested in automation. Apparently morale at the plant is now at a rock bottom because employees see the writing on the wall - they'll either be replaced by robots or the plant will just shut down in the next few years. Unless the Government subsidize Carrier to keep employing humans, those jobs are going away. It's like the coal mining industry - it employees less than 60,000 people in the US (Walmart employs 1.5 million to put that in perspective) and is an industry that not profitable or heading that way in almost all cases. But Trump "digs coal" and is here to save it apparently - to the tune of $4b per year (approx $67,000 per job) in government subsidies. Propping up an industry with a ton of government money vs using that money to invest in retraining and infrastructure projects is insane (and socialism by proxy!). People want to work - giving them a job that relies on government subsidies (and thus the political winds) is very short term thinking - which unfortunately can be tactically smart given that elections happen every four years. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 @Vancvillan - to be clear, I'm not suggesting it was some great intervention, or commenting on the societal value of doing it. Just that it was a big PR win for him, and that getting PR wins that related to keeping jobs for blue-collar workers would have been a more effective tactic than publicly embracing the McConnell/Chamber of Commerce agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancvillan Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: @Vancvillan - to be clear, I'm not suggesting it was some great intervention, or commenting on the societal value of doing it. Just that it was a big PR win for him, and that getting PR wins that related to keeping jobs for blue-collar workers would have been a more effective tactic than publicly embracing the McConnell/Chamber of Commerce agenda. @HanoiVillan - didn't mean any of that to sound like a critique of you personally or what you said, just that it was great evidence of an insidious problem. The bit I was hoping to focus on was the fact that Trump talks a lot, and what he says usually has an element of truth. Where he's had a surface-level win, 99.9% of people will remember the win in absolute terms, rather than what actually happened days, weeks or months later as a result of that decision. Human beings are generally terrible at taking a long view on anything (we're just not geared to think that way) and we tend to view a lot of actions in a very transactional way that doesn't take into account downstream effects (Mexicans out = more jobs for Americans!). It's really not helped by a 15 minute news cycle and social media where anything can be made more exciting, more sensational - and context or nuance are boring. I honestly don't know what the answer is - at this point I'm just a guy shaking his fists at clouds - but if I could put a button next to every Facebook post, Tweet or news story that Googled "what the post says" + "hoax" I would. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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