New Manager...

[MrBlack]

18 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Can anyone who thinks keeping Dean for next season explain why.

Hopefully based on more than he got us promoted last season so will do it again.

For me he is a very limited manager and we need someone who has a plan a, b and c and will change it as soon as he can see the current plan is not working

I'm very much undecided.  In the immediate aftermath of our most recent terrible performances i want him gone. When I calm down and think about it I can see the merits in keeping him.

1) we've not had stability for decades. There isn't a single manager we've had that had ended up getting the boot in that timeframe that even the slightest part of me wanted to stay. Smith would offer stability.

2) the fact he did get us promoted, with us playing some of the best football we've seen in those last 2 decades, is nothing to ignore.  He got our longest winning streak in modern history.  Admittedly a large part of that was thanks to Grealish, but the whole team was performing exceptional in the second half of last season.

3) despite his insistence on making late substitutions, if we go down with him doing that,  he may just learn he needs to add more to his managerial skillset. He has never managed in the Premier league before,  he will have if he brings us back up next season. 

4) the team we will have should see us capable of promotion with any of the managers in the top half of the championship, so he's got a relatively easy ride to get us back up,  and if by December it's looking poor then is the time to change.

5) weak reasoning; there's no benefit sacking him now for this season. I see us staying up or going down irrespective of who is the manager. It really depends on whether any of the other teams pull off a shock result, which would mean our results in games that we should win (Palace and wet spam) are the only two that really matter

6) he's a Villan that deserves more respect than any of our recent managers, and even the chance to have this season as a free run in reality,  we were likely to be shafted given how mission impossible this season was in retrospect 

Edited June 28, 2020 by MrBlack

[avfc1982am]

34 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Can anyone who thinks keeping Dean for next season explain why.

Hopefully based on more than he got us promoted last season so will do it again.

For me he is a very limited manager and we need someone who has a plan a, b and c and will change it as soon as he can see the current plan is not working

I can think of many reasons football related not to keep him. The most obvious imo isn't football related necessarily. It's rewarding failure.... You reward it, you accept it, you become it. 

 

[danceoftheshamen]

The more i think on this the more i don't think our owners will ever recruit a big name manager.

The reason? I just get the feeling that they want to continue with this "moneyball 2" thing with Suso pretty much running the show and i genuinely cannot see a top manager putting up with that as they would want guarantees. I have no doubt Smith has an input to some extent but it appears they are listening to the names he wants and then Suso is scouting the Belgian or Turkish Leagues to see if any players have similar / better stats but cost 1/4 of the price. Then they are rocking up with that guy & saying... ""Hey Dean, we've found a real nugget for you buddy... much better stats than that Benramary bloke you mentioned, you're gonna love him... Suso swears by it"" (Of course forgetting player stats in the Belgian/Turkish leagues stack up somewhat differently in the toughest League in the World...Who'd have thought it?!! )

If this is the case may as well stick with Dean and hope his passion for Villa gets them to have a rethink. He will have learned a lot from this season you would hope anyway so would surely be better placed to cope if/when we get promoted again... assuming we do drop of course.

Edited June 29, 2020 by danceoftheshamen

[Laughable Chimp]

What's Sherwood up to these days....

[AvfcRigo82]

See you in the Dugout in a few weeks JT!

[QldVilla]

19 hours ago, Zatman said:

Well I have seen his team play live and have an interest in the Swedish league so I am aware

Of course you have, but rather than put together an intelligent comment/methodology to support your opinion, it was, he lost his first 3 games.

Im still waiting for a clear and concise opinion based on fact as to why Mellberg won’t be a good manager. I’ll leave it with you.

 

[hippo]

I wonder what's DS will think of they keep him and susso on next season.

Like the rest of us Smith must be questioning the tools he has been given to do the job. Wesley, Trez , Nkamba .

Not an excuse as some of the DS signings Jota and Konsa look suspect as well. 

 

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, QldVilla said:

Of course you have, but rather than put together an intelligent comment/methodology to support your opinion, it was, he lost his first 3 games.

Im still waiting for a clear and concise opinion based on fact as to why Mellberg won’t be a good manager. I’ll leave it with you.

 

I didnt say he lost his 1st 3 games because he didnt. They drew 1 and lost 2 and havent scored and have been struggling to even create chances. They havent even played a decent team yet. The Allsvenskan to the English League is a huge jump and Mellberg has less than 10 games experience in that division

One day he might be a good manager but its crazy to give him the job now or even think he is a contender except for nostalgia reasons. Graeme Potter managed 8 years in Sweden before a team in the UK saw that he had enough potential to give him a chance and that was mainly because they ran Arsenal close in Europa League

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

13 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Haha hadn't actually thought of that. 

Shit. 

What we can hold onto is that Liverpool don't usually destroy teams like Man City. They are just very effective in their all round play.

[PussEKatt]

13 hours ago, MrBlack said:

I'm very much undecided.  In the immediate aftermath of our most recent terrible performances i want him gone. When I calm down and think about it I can see the merits in keeping him.

1) we've not had stability for decades. There isn't a single manager we've had that had ended up getting the boot in that timeframe that even the slightest part of me wanted to stay. Smith would offer stability.

2) the fact he did get us promoted, with us playing some of the best football we've seen in those last 2 decades, is nothing to ignore.  He got our longest winning streak in modern history.  Admittedly a large part of that was thanks to Grealish, but the whole team was performing exceptional in the second half of last season.

3) despite his insistence on making late substitutions, if we go down with him doing that,  he may just learn he needs to add more to his managerial skillset. He has never managed in the Premier league before,  he will have if he brings us back up next season. 

4) the team we will have should see us capable of promotion with any of the managers in the top half of the championship, so he's got a relatively easy ride to get us back up,  and if by December it's looking poor then is the time to change.

5) weak reasoning; there's no benefit sacking him now for this season. I see us staying up or going down irrespective of who is the manager. It really depends on whether any of the other teams pull off a shock result, which would mean our results in games that we should win (Palace and wet spam) are the only two that really matter

6) he's a Villan that deserves more respect than any of our recent managers, and even the chance to have this season as a free run in reality,  we were likely to be shafted given how mission impossible this season was in retrospect 

1 - What sort of stability are you looking for ? we have lost 3/4 of our games.Thats NOT the sort of stability I want.

2 - If you think DS got us up,can you tell me what he was achieving while Jack was injured.It was Jack that got us up, not DS.

3 - What did he learn when he kept Wesley starting every game while he only scored every 2 months.

4 - That would give a new manage with new ideas a really good start.

5 - I dont understand what you mean.

6 - So you prefer a supporter rather than a manager ?

Edited June 29, 2020 by PussEKatt

[The Fun Factory]

If anyone thinks Poch will be at Villa next season then they most be on the happy pills.

The days of a PL manager dropping down a division willingly for a new job are over.  Dyche coming to Villa would be the rough equivalent of Taylor went he left Watford to come to us, but football has changed since then.

Edited June 29, 2020 by The Fun Factory

[Adbo9]

what frustrates me is people back Smith and say "recruitment has killed him, theyre not his players" which personally I feel is a right cop out as he more than once confirmed he is involved at every step  on who comes in

if he cant be criticized when its going bad then surely the flipside is he cant be praised for when it goes well...…….. it doesn't work one way for me

Smith Out I say

[VillaChris]

18 hours ago, M_Afro said:

Southampton are a well coached team. I would love their manager. If we do have big ambitions and any new manager is going to be backed then we may be able to tempt him. He is going no further at Southampton. He may see Villa as a big draw

He signed a new 4 year deal about two weeks ago. Think he liked the backing their board gave him after the 9-0.

[VillaChris]

15 hours ago, Zatman said:

Gallardo has won a lot of trophies at River but his league record isnt really standing out. He hasnt won the league and 3 of his 5 seasons they finished outside the top 6 in Argentina

Didn't Diego Simeone once finish bottom of that league or have I get it wrong? They seem to average out league places after three years unless they've changed format recently.

Think Gallardo will probably turn up at a Monaco or Valencia but would be exciting appointment.

[VillaChris]

11 hours ago, danceoftheshamen said:

The more i think on this the more i don't think our owners will ever recruit a big name manager.

The reason? I just get the feeling that they want to continue with this "moneyball 2" thing with Suso pretty much running the show and i genuinely cannot see a top manager putting up with that as they would want guarantees. I have no doubt Smith has an input to some extent but it appears they are listening to the names he wants and then Suso is scouting the Belgian or Turkish Leagues to see if any players have similar / better stats but cost 1/4 of the price. Then they are rocking up with that guy & saying... ""Hey Dean, we've found a real nugget for you buddy... much better stats than that Benramary bloke you mentioned, you're gonna love him... Suso swears by it"" (Of course forgetting player stats in the Belgian/Turkish leagues stack up somewhat differently in the toughest League in the World...Who'd have thought it?!! )

If this is the case may as well stick with Dean and hope his passion for Villa gets them to have a rethink. He will have learned a lot from this season you would hope anyway so would surely be better placed to cope if/when we get promoted again... assuming we do drop of course.

Really hope not, would just be more of the same of last six years of Lerner. This season has been a wake up call and we need to learn the lessons if we're promoted again in 12 months time.

Ownership is certainly deluded if they think continuing the strategy we used last summer is going to get us close to european football anytime soon (league position).

[Follyfoot]

Big Sam for me is a no brainer, he would get us doing the basics right first and foremost and then build from there into a  mid table established premier team then reassess. Not pretty but what we need 

[MrBlack]

4 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

1 - What sort of stability are you looking for ? we have lost 3/4 of our games.Thats NOT the sort of stability I want.

2 - If you think DS got us up,can you tell me what he was achieving while Jack was injured.It was Jack that got us up, not DS.

3 - What did he learn when he kept Wesley starting every game while he only scored every 2 months.

4 - That would give a new manage with new ideas a really good start.

5 - I dont understand what you mean.

6 - So you prefer a supporter rather than a manager ?

1 - Others have stated that many successful endings have started with poor runs. History is littered with examples, most notably Alex Ferguson at United.  Yes, the modern game has examples too but that isn't really the main point.  I'm not expecting the players that we assembled at haste following an unexpected promotion, with a core team that for the most part of last seasom struggled to compete in the championship, would be competing above the relegation spots. Our current form largely reflects the quality of the team we have, so the stability i'm after is giving someone more than a season to build a team. You can't fix what was wrong with our club in one season.

2 - Jacks performances improved under Smith's management, surely he takes some credit for that?

3 - I dont see what happens in training, we didn't have much in the way of other options, and not starting your very expensive striker when your only alternatives are youth strikers isn't exactly a stick to beat him with.  I'm pointing out that he has the opportunity to demonstrate what he's learned from going through that, and having made that mistake,  and maybe in future years he wont sit idly by when the owners feel it is OK to go into a season with only one (unproven) striker 

4 - or we run the risk that we repeat the exact same mistake we've made for the past 15+ years

5 - I said its a pretty weak reason, but effectively I don't see any benefit in swapping managers now. I think the same outcome is happening this season irrespectice of who is in charge. No short term bounce is happening that will help us in those games we're almost certainly going to lose, and I reckon Dean is as likely as anyone else to get us a win against crystal Palace and west ham. Its an opinion, I expect others will disagree

6 - I prefer not to sh!t on one of our own, especially when I only hold him partially responsible for the mess we're in. 

 

I am not saying there aren't counter arguments, but I'd just like us to have a manager for more than 1.5 seasons and Dean is worthy of having that opportunity.

[Bomvilla7]

Marcelo Gallardo would be a risk...but a risk worth taking in my opinion. Rafa would be the other one I would want if it came to change.

[Mjvilla]

4 hours ago, Adbo9 said:

what frustrates me is people back Smith and say "recruitment has killed him, theyre not his players" which personally I feel is a right cop out as he more than once confirmed he is involved at every step  on who comes in

if he cant be criticized when its going bad then surely the flipside is he cant be praised for when it goes well...…….. it doesn't work one way for me

Smith Out I say

Literally the opposite of that is happening in this forum. He takes no praise for when it went well last year and this forum is full of criticism for him right now. Ive even done quite a comprehensive post on this exact matter, because it's a frustration of mine, but literally opposite to what you said!!

[mykeyb]

22 hours ago, MrBlack said:

 

6) he's a Villan that deserves more respect than any of our recent managers, and even the chance to have this season as a free run in reality,  we were likely to be shafted given how mission impossible this season was in retrospect 

I don't think I could disagree more. if he was a fan of Blues or Albion then he should go but as he is one of us he somehow gets a free pass for what he has achieved or not this season?

Who a manger supports is irrelevant to be honest